Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby sunglasses » Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:21 pm

I agree that police training has some serious issues.

There is a huge difference between teaching situation awareness and teaching so much fear that both dogs and people are shot "just to be safe."

It's already been noted that de-escalation training (something I learned in fucking nursing school) is sorely lacking in many department's training.

Edit: A statement from the police has been released:

Sgt. Jon Mangseth, interim chief of the St. Anthony police, said two officers were present when the shooting occurred. They were identified late Thursday as Officer Jeronimo Yanez and Officer Joseph Kauser.
Both have been with the St. Anthony Police Department for four years. Both are on standard administrative leave.
"Officer Yanez approached the vehicle from the driver's side and Officer Kauser from the passenger side. At one point during the interaction, Officer Yanez discharged his weapon, striking Castile multiple times," according to the Minnesota Department of Public Safety Bureau of Criminal Apprehension.
St. Anthony police don't have body cameras, according to office manager Kim Brazil.
One officer has been placed on paid administrative leave, which is also standard procedure, Mangseth said at a news conference. No police were injured.
"We will release the information as we learn it, and we will address concerns as we are faced with them," he said.
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby Twistappel » Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:24 pm

I randomly stumbled across this while looking for something else:

Police 'de-escalation' training — how it could help Chicago

As the headline implies, it mostly relates to the Chicago PD, but it does appear that some of the larger police departments are slowly getting the message about improving training in things like de-escalation. However even then, they are being stymied by funding and cultural and organisational issues.

However most of these issues seem to occur in smaller forces outside major cities (or maybe that's just my perception). In addition to the sheer number of law enforcement departments, I would expect that smaller, regional forces are going to have even bigger problems with budget and cultural change. I know that some states try to centralise their police training to a greater or lesser extent, but that's still a whole bunch of fragmentation to deal with.

And of course, nobody likes to be told that they're doing their job wrong. Anybody who has ever had anything to do with change management can tell you that.

And as Kate pointed out, training is only part of the puzzle. There are a whole bunch of issues intersecting here to create a perfect shitstorm of people dying for no good reason.
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby iMURDAu » Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:05 pm

They deescalate with hand cannons. Kind of like aggressive negotiations with a lightsaber but irl. Perceived aggression? Boom not anymore.
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby sunglasses » Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:13 pm

My brother in law just shared this.


Dude if you can't realize how inappropriate and tone deaf that is...
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby Crimson847 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:19 pm

sunglasses wrote:My brother in law just shared this.


Dude if you can't realize how inappropriate and tone deaf that is...


Fine advice, bad timing.
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby DashaBlade » Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:31 pm

sunglasses wrote:My brother in law just shared this.


Dude if you can't realize how inappropriate and tone deaf that is...


It's Facebook, so I take it with a grain of salt, but it's not an uncommon attitude for people to say "because my experience was different than their experience, their experience is a bad example". Even if police officers are well-trained and decent 90% of the time, it doesn't negate the other 10% of the time when something happens because the cop is poorly trained, his/her judgement is compromised, or he/she had a really bad day and is overreacting.

The way I see it, that Facebook post is a good example of victim-blaming. "Well, he must have done something wrong, so he deserved it. I did everything right and I'm here to tell you about it."
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby sunglasses » Fri Jul 08, 2016 7:48 pm

yeah, the comments from my uncle and BIL are just ....great....

I can't anymore.PNG
I can't anymore.PNG (80.83 KiB) Viewed 4160 times


Edit:
Apparently I make my Uncle feel like an ass by using A BIG WORD once again. Last time the word I used that offended him was "periphery."

family.PNG
family.PNG (163.67 KiB) Viewed 4135 times
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby Kate » Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:08 pm

This is notably not a problem in all counties, with all cops, in all precincts. I'd say "No one is saying all cops are bad and this will happen no matter what," except some people are saying that.

A lot of people are not, though. I think a lot of people are aware that even when a cop is involved in a shooting, it's not necessarily because they're an evil racist murderer looking to kill people.

But let's say we have a situation where Toyota makes good, reliable cars. Wonderful mileage, you'll get a lot of years out of a Toyota, they're just awesome. They have really high safety ratings, everything's great. But it turns out that 5% of their airbags will, instead of saving your life, instantly kill you with shrapnel. If they know about that and do nothing to recall those airbags and point to the 95% of the time that those airbags do not kill you with shrapnel, that's irresponsible. It's not good enough. It's okay to say "We have a fantastic product in general but there is a dire need to correct this problem because even if it doesn't happen most of the time, when it does happen it is horrific and it's morally wrong to allow this to continue."

I'm sure people would agree that "well my airbag worked so theirs must work too," would be bad logic. But I guess the solution for this systemic problem is a little more difficult than a product recall, and it's easier to believe if someone gets hurt, they must have done something wrong. The alternative is scary and difficult to deal with.
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby Crimson847 » Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:08 pm

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"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby Twistappel » Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:25 pm

sunglasses wrote:My brother in law just shared this.


Dude if you can't realize how inappropriate and tone deaf that is...

That reminds me of another thing I wanted to bring up: Having an agitated police officer pointing a gun at you is probably not an atmosphere conducive to calmly thinking through the exact best way to avoid startling said officer.

People make stupid decisions under stress. Which again, is why police and other first responders generally receive training in how to deal with that stress. Random members of the public, not so much.
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby Crimson847 » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:28 am

A friend of mine posted this video on Facebook. It's interesting for context; while few officers will ever be in a situation like this, I imagine that many if not most police officers have seen several of these kinds of videos, either for training purposes or personal reasons.

https://www.facebook.com/15068215896191 ... 472694304/
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"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby Absentia » Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:20 am

sunglasses wrote:My brother in law just shared this.


Dude if you can't realize how inappropriate and tone deaf that is...


Have I mentioned lately how happy I am to not be using Facebook? Because I totally don't need to know what my racist grandmother thinks about this situation.
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby blehblah » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:06 pm

This is a sad case. Four year-old in the backseat, man and woman in the front seats. Broken tail light.

Steering wheel from a right-hand drive, or is the video reversed for some reason?

I suppose it's a good thing that police use bullets that don't go through-and-through, else the woman and/or daughter may have been hit.

Hearing the dude gasping, followed by the daughter reassuring the mother... that has left an impression on me, and that's from a video. The little girl is never going to unsee that. How many people here have watched someone die? How many of those have watched someone die as the result of another person shooting?

That little girl has.

I don't know what happened before the start of the video. I do know I have always been frightened of the prospect of being pulled-over in the US. Cops are also scared. Everyone is scared, and armed, and scared because other scared people are armed and scared, and...

There must be a procedure for doing a traffic stop with someone who declares that they have a licensed gun. It's probably along the lines of carefully securing the gun after asking the person to leave the vehicle.

It sounds as though there were no body cams, but maybe there's a cruiser cam that can help shed some light on this.

In any case, both the cop and guy being pulled-over were under a lot of stress, and armed. The rest played-out under that set of circumstances.

Maybe the NRA could put a snub-nosed .38 in the little girl's hands, to defend herself against an oppressive government 'man'.
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Re: Woman Livestreams Boyfriend's Death By Police Shooting

Postby sunglasses » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:24 pm

An online group called Blue Lives Matter have been claiming that Castile was wanted for armed robber since he had "a similar nose" and the gf smoked "the brand" of cigarettes stolen from a store 4 days before the shooting.

Snopes has debunked that claim:

http://www.snopes.com/philando-castile- ... d-robbery/

bleh, some phones automatically mirror the image. I am unsure if hers does or not.They may have demanded the passenger show I.D. as well (which isn't required but they still do).
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Girlfriend of Philando Castile awarded 800K in settlement

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:02 pm

...and boy, are the racists pissed off about it!
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