There is no coup in Zimbabwe

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There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby Anglerphobe » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:31 pm

This is not a coup. Let us be very clear, and very insistent about that. Very insistent. Not a coup. Definitely not. Don't be ridiculous.

Zimbabwe's armed forces have taken control of Harare and "secured" the presidential family at their residence. You will note that this sounds a lot like house arrest, but if I may refer you to the lines at the top of this post, it is of course nothing of the sort. We know this because of the statement given by General Constantino Chiwenga confirming that, despite superficially resembling a coup, what with the soldiers controlling the streets and the detention of the head of state, it is quite certainly not a coup.
The cause of the not-coup is the quite incredible oldness of Zimbabwe's long serving president Robert Mugabe. When, in the fairly near future the 93 year old sitting president dies, it is not clear who will succeed him (or win the resulting free and fair election by shattering landslide, in other words) but the two candidates left in recent years after the boiling down of the list were Grace Mugabe, the president's wife and popular jeer-recipient, and (now former) VP Emmerson Mnangagwa. The latter was removed from office suddenly last week, apparently with the direct involvement of the former. Chiwenga, an old friend and ally of Mnangagwa, then takes to the streets with his armed men and detains the president and his family for a vague reason which has not been elaborated on.

It's handy that he went on state television to assure the not-coupness of this action, because without that clarification it could be mistaken for one. By the untrained eye.
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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby sunglasses » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:42 pm

Hey, I had a loud discussion about Zimbabwe just this morning!

Also, links: https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/ ... ugabe-live

http://time.com/5025028/zimbabwe-milita ... rt-mugabe/

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-41992351

The apparent putsch, which the military is refusing to call a coup, marks the first time in Mugabe's 37-year rule that a public rift was visible between the military and the world's oldest head of state, who has been in office since the end of white minority rule in 1980.

Initially, the governing party accused Army Chief Gen. Constantino Chiwenga of "treasonous conduct," but the party's account later tweeted: "There was no coup," but instead "a bloodless transition which saw corrupt and crooked persons being arrested." Apparently referring to Mugabe, the tweet said that "an elderly man who had been taken advantage of by his wife [was] detained."
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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby Marcuse » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:17 pm

It's perfectly reasonable for a 93 year old man to not ever leave his home again and leave the running of the country to younger and more armed men. There's no way this could be a coup, because they're only trying to stop the purge of Zanu PF by criminals. Everyone knows criminals are always wrong and the army is always right. There's...this nice man with a rifle who told me so. So nice.

I think we should all reserve judgement until later. It's not like there's tanks on the streets of Harar... Oh, wait. There are? Oh well we should still reserve judgement. It's just the most reasonable thing to do.

In seriousness though, I'm not sure how to feel about this. I'm no fan of Mugabe, or his disastrous reforms that have seen white farmers thrown of their land for the crime of being white, and Zimbabwe turn from the breadbasket of Africa into a hyperinflationary economic wasteland. However, I'm not much of a fan of military coups either, so it's a toss up between a turd sandwich and a giant douche, I may just not vote this year. What was I talking about?
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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby Delta Jim » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:20 pm

I'll post this here too.

Image
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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby cmsellers » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:35 pm

Marcuse wrote:In seriousness though, I'm not sure how to feel about this.

I am. As a rule, I believe coups against authoritarian regimes are at worst morally neutral and at best a good thing. Worst case scenario is they continue on as before with new bad guys, best-case scenario is they lead to a return to normal politics, as happened in the Carnation Revolution.

Zimbabwe is a case where it's hard to imagine things getting worse, so I'm cautiously optimistic about this, or I would be if it were a coup. Unfortunately, I don't have a rule about how to feel about not-coups by news reporters with no fashion sense.
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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby Krashlia » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:51 pm

Well it looks like a Coup, and sounds like a coup... But its clearly a welcoming party!
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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby NathanLoiselle » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:23 pm

A welcoming party? I think it's more of a jaunty retirement party.
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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby Marcuse » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:26 pm

The BBC still isn't sure.

Coup or no.png
Coup or no.png (141.68 KiB) Viewed 4478 times


Maybe a coup? Not a coup? Who knows?????
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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby sunglasses » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:26 pm

NathanLoiselle wrote:A welcoming party? I think it's more of a jaunty retirement party.


They've even got firecrackers for you, Nathan!

Oh wait. No, those are gun shots.
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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby Aquila89 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:42 pm

cmsellers wrote:Zimbabwe is a case where it's hard to imagine things getting worse, so I'm cautiously optimistic about this


A civil war could break out. But if Mugabe is ousted and civil war does not break out, it's indeed hard to imagine his successor doing a worse job than him.
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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby BROWNRECLUSE » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:44 am

I just want to know if the Zimbabwe Air Force is as awesome as the Uganda Air Force

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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby JamishT » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:15 am

Second to top comment on that Imgur post where Grim got his memes:

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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby cmsellers » Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:22 am

BROWNRECLUSE wrote:I just want to know if the Zimbabwe Air Force is as awesome as the Uganda Air Force


This is why we invented Agent Orange. Are you men, Ugandan Air Force, or are you a bunch of whiny pansy environmentalists?
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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby tinyrick » Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:54 pm

It's not a coup, it's a junta. The difference is subtle. Real subtle. Like how this satchel I'm carrying is not a purse. It's bigger, and manlier looking than a purse, so it's not a purse. Junta is different from a coup cause it sounds much cooler.
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Re: There is no coup in Zimbabwe

Postby Marcuse » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:05 am

Today saw protests across Harare which were widely described as having a "party" feel. Far from being violently suppressed, the anti-Mugabe protests calling on him to "rest" and other less kind euphemisms have been gently kept away from the Presidential residence but otherwise appear to have been conducted with little opposition.

The leader of the opposition MDC, Morgan Tsvangirai, has returned to the country and is discussing ways the MDC can cooperate with the military and urging democratic reform. Grace Mugabe, far from having fled the country as was reported previously, is actually under house arrest with Robert. The military is urging him to step down.

In a shocking move that will probably end him, 8 out of 10 precincts of Zanu-PF have passed a vote of no confidence in Robert Mugabe, a move which may see him removed as the leader of Zanu-PF entirely. A gathering of Independence veterans in Harare concluded that he has to go as well.

There's been no sight of him since he attended a university graduation ceremony on Friday, but it's understood that tomorrow will see the start of talks about his potential resignation and the establishment of some form of government going forward. Mugabe himself is reported as saying he cannot resign as this would legitimise the coup by the military, but it doesn't seem like the military is trying to take power for itself as much as it's moving against an old, unpopular and unreliable leader. They do seem to be pushing for the reinstatement of the sacked VP; Emmerson Mnangagwa, but it's unclear whether they're expecting him to be a successor President or not.
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