Mueller Files First Charges

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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:46 am

I do genuinely hope it's Trump Jr for that meeting he had. What an amazing opening move that would be if Mueller indicted Trump's kid first. I mean, Trump would certainly pardon him, but maybe it'd be a lesson to future hopefuls: "Don't have your children involved with your campaign beyond going on stage at the RNC/DNC to say how amazing you are, especially if you're shady AF"
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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:58 pm

It's Manafort.
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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby archaeologydalek » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:22 pm

REDACTED
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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby Marcuse » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:48 pm

Interesting that all of the work they did was for Ukraine (albeit the pro-Russian puppet government) rather than from any Russian proper. Also holy hell they laundered money on a shocking scale (assuming it's proven).
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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby archaeologydalek » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:40 pm

REDACTED
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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby tinyrick » Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:43 pm

phpBB [video]
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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby Cobra-D » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:12 pm

So in a related news story, former trump campaign adviser George Papadopolous pleaded guilty a few months back to making false statements about having contact with foreign agents( the Russian kind). If anyone is wondering he was definitely involved in the trump
Campaign while being a campaign adviser. I mean duh the title is in the name.
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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby sunglasses » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:31 pm

Here are the charges that PAPADOPOULOS plead guilty to:
https://www.justice.gov/file/1007346/download

Rick Gates has also been indicted. Meanwhile, this tweet hasn't aged well

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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby tinyrick » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:16 pm

The Tweeting Twat is t'rowing a twitter tantrum again. While this is going on, I thought of a suggestion for Trump's official re-election campaign song.

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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby ghijkmnop » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:24 pm

Redacted
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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:27 pm

So in other words, they're not charging MANAFORT with influencing the election. The shadiest guy, directly worked on Ukraine, HE isn't being charged with anything related to the election.

What do you guys think, they'll indict him again, seperately, in two months on interference with election charges?
They're letting him go so that he can indict Trump?
What exactly are they waiting for?

The conspiracy charges are for lying to the FBI about representing a foreign power, and for tax evasion, in case you thought that was it.

Yeah sure, house of cards falling down alright.

Papadopoulos on the other hand, lied about being approached by Russians. That's what he's being charged for. Trump campaign officials knew he would be able to provide contacts with Russia, and yet, even in the indictment, it plainly states that the actual meeting, in the end, didn't take place.

The indictment also starts out saying that he pursued the Russian connections because of Trump's pro-Russia stance, which has been public knowledge since the beginning, meaning Trump didn't start any of this. But I'm sure he's a Russian agent.

Lock Trump up guys, he totally colluded with Russia.

For anyone keeping score, if you want to use these two indictments as evidence of a Russia-Trump collusion charge in the works, you're admitting that:
  • This didn't start with Trump's debts to Russia, so those bank connections mean nothing. If it did, they wouldn't be looking for more people to put them in contact with Trump
  • Manafort, a direct Russian agent, manager of Trump's campaign, isn't being indicted for election interference
  • Russia's been trying to contact Trump agents, but actual high ranking campaign officials have not met Russia
  • If blackmail is involved, they're working real hard to obfuscate it by also offering the emails. (say this about anything else and try not to be labelled a conspiracy theorist)

If you don't see something problematic forming out of this, I don't know what to say. The media's sources were dead wrong on several counts. There is no special info being leaked from Mueller to the media, they're just reporting a combination of guesses and anonymous nonsense, with one or two actually true things and have been from the very beginning. Comey literally said this btw. That several anonymous sources were wrong.
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Last edited by A Combustible Lemon on Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:20 pm, edited 5 times in total.


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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby IamNotCreepy » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:42 pm

A Combustible Lemon wrote:So in other words, they're not charging MANAFORT with influencing the election. The shadiest guy, directly worked on Ukraine, HE isn't being charged with anything related to the election.

What do you guys think, they'll indict him again, seperately, in two months on interference with election charges?
They're letting him go so that he can indict Trump?
What exactly are they waiting for?

The conspiracy charges are for lying to the FBI about representing a foreign power, and for tax evasion, in case you thought that was it.

Yeah sure, house of cards falling down alright.


This is a classic law enforcement tactic. You go for the low-hanging fruit, and then you get the lower level guys to roll over on someone above them.

Doing this will probably shake loose some other information or prompt other people to seek immunity.
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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby Aquila89 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:46 pm

Whatever you think of Trump, Manafort belongs to jail. He spends decades lobbying for some of the most corrupt dictatorships on the planet. I hope he finally gets what was coming to him for a long time.
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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby blehblah » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:01 pm

Manafort was always going to be the first to get nailed.

The charges haven't been tested in a court of law, yadda, yadda, but... the guy is as dirty as <insert manafort metaphor - technically, a simile>.

From the link that Sunny provided about Papadopoulos:

The defendant, GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS, who served as a foreign policy
advisor for the presidential campaign of Donald J. Trump (the "Campaign"), made material false
statements and material omissions during an interview with the Federal Bureau of Investigation
("FBI'.) that took place on January 27, 2017. At the time of the interview, the FBI had an open
investigation into the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election,
including the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Campaign and the
Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the Campaign and
Russia's efforts. The FBI opened and coordinated the investigation in Washington, D.C.


That's how the document gets rolling.

Who knows what Trump knew, because the man excels at knowing very little, if anything. If there is one, single, solitary thing Trump does know, it is where his money comes from, and where it goes. Iranian Republican Guard controlled entities, anyone? Mobsters, of various and sundry nationalities and levels of legality? Demonstrable check, and check, and... engage panic mode.

The trick, as this unfolds, will be what is federal (which Trump may be able to apply an a priori pardon to) and what is state (to which Trump can't pardon, though he has other tools).

Whether by politics, or by purpose, Mueller has put a stake in the ground. Distraction, misdirection, empty cries from the self-declared sanctimonious shoulders of the canyons will only echo from this empty barrel. It is now politically impossible to yank Mueller away.

It would not be surprising to learn that tax returns relating to individuals and private organizations are being - or have been - poured-over.

Whether this accelerates, or continues to slowly grind is the only question. Related is the question of when, or if, the GOP will solve the political calculus such that they find "run away" as a the solution. Mid-terms are starting to look pretty far away from a success measure, yet so close in a messaging sense.

If the Dems aren't organizing around "let's fuck this shit up", as opposed to, "how can we find a sure-fire way to fail, once again?", they are morons. Now that I read that back through the 20/20 lens of history...
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Re: Mueller Files First Charges

Postby IamNotCreepy » Mon Oct 30, 2017 6:13 pm

Also, keep in mind what has happened the 9 months. Every time the specter of the Russia investigation appears, Trump self-destructs and starts tweeting and saying self-incriminating things.

This previously led to Comey being fired and some potential grounds for Obstruction of Justice. Charging someone with Trump campaign will likely cause Trump to tip his hand. He may even take additional steps to try to obstruct justice.
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