Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's assault

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Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's assault

Postby DamianaRaven » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:14 pm

This is a pretty fucked-up reminder that America doesn't hold the monopoly on Bible-banging misogyny. Something tells me they wouldn't cut a woman one inch of slack for "punishing" her cheating husband! Notice how every reference is specifically to "a woman's adultery."
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Re: Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's ass

Postby sunglasses » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:05 pm

They didn't just quote the Bible. They also quoted a 19th Century law.

The judges at the appeals court in Porto, Portugal's second-largest city, wrote that they were making reference to the Bible and an old law "to stress that a woman's adultery amounts to conduct which society has always condemned and condemned very strongly."

The written ruling became public this week and sparked outrage on Portuguese social media, with numerous rights groups speaking out.


And we don't know how the Portuguese courts would react to a woman assaulting her husband after he committed adultery, as no cases are linked here and to my knowledge none of us are Portuguese law scholars. To insinuate that the woman would not be as harshly punished because of this this group of judges use of the Bible is disingenuous. It's like saying Roy Moore represents all US judges. He doesn't and these Portuguese judges don't represent all Portuguese judges.

In fact, in many aspects of the world the notion of women beating and assaulting men is still wrongly taken as a joke.
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Re: Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's ass

Postby DamianaRaven » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:14 pm

The fact that they went out of their way to specifically condemn "a woman's adultery" and liken it to an assault on her husband's "dignity and honor" is pretty telling by my standards, but I'll readily admit that this suspicion is based purely on opinion and speculation. "Something tells me" is hardly a definitive declaration of fact. Happy now?

Further, if this "judge" isn't universally condemned and forced off the bench for this bullshit (and I think we can both agree that this ruling is, in fact, bullshit) then the whole system is pretty complicit in his asshattery. How can this guy be trusted to judge any case when he so clearly allows his religious beliefs to bias him?
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Re: Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's ass

Postby Australia » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:40 am

Wow, the reply heading has unfortunate connotations.

It would certainly be outrageous to write Bible quotes on a woman's ass. At least in my experience. Apparently crayon is an uncomfortable texture or something.
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Re: Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's ass

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:55 am

That is a warm, moist slice of unintentional hilarity right there! I just copied the headline directly from the linked story.
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Re: Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's ass

Postby DoglovingJim » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:22 am

We can't say it's misogyny though unless we have an example of a woman beating up a man for his adultery and her case is handled differently. For me it's understandable "that they went out of their way to specifically condemn a woman's adultery" considering that it was a woman committing adultery in this case, it doesn't prove that they are being sexist instead more like they were wrapping their ratio decidendi with a neat bow. Considering the bible says that adulterers are to be killed without remorse the ex-husband getting a suspended sentence and a fine is still more punishment, and the woman still has the right to appeal the decision for something stronger. Because don't forget that individual judges could handle the case differently as they deem fit.


I'm not sure about the legal system in Portugal, perhaps they do place a stronger emphasis against adultery than Western society in the 21st century does and I wouldn't be able to judge them for that. But I refuse to call it sexist or anti-women unless we are provided with more information, something which proves that if the roles were reversed the case would have went differently.
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Re: Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's ass

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:01 am

DoglovingJim wrote:We can't say it's misogyny though...


I can (and will) say it's misogyny to let a man off the hook with no jail time for beating a woman with a ball bat into which he had driven nails, and then basically insinuate that she ought to be glad he didn't kill her for damaging his "dignity and honor." This kind of decision straight-up condones domestic violence (even with gender completely removed from the equation) and is highly problematic for me, even from halfway across the world. Maybe I shouldn't have speculated about what would happen if the genders were reversed, so I hereby withdraw that casual observation!

It is not (and never has been, never will be) OK to physically assault and/or kill your partner because they had sex with somebody else. Marriage does not confer that kind of ownership! The only appropriate "punishment" for adultery is divorce. Anything else is in violation of man's law. A judge who shows leniency for that kind of savagery because of what the Bible has to say on the subject is unfit for secular public service. Maybe his faith and piety would be more effectively applied to a position in the clergy.
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Re: Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's ass

Postby DoglovingJim » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:20 am

DamianaRaven wrote:
DoglovingJim wrote:We can't say it's misogyny though...


I can (and will) say it's misogyny to let a man off the hook with no jail time for beating a woman with a ball bat into which he had driven nails, and then basically insinuate that she ought to be glad he didn't kill her for damaging his "dignity and honor." This kind of decision straight-up condones domestic violence (even with gender completely removed from the equation) and is highly problematic for me, even from halfway across the world. Maybe I shouldn't have speculated about what would happen if the genders were reversed, so I hereby withdraw that casual observation!

It is not (and never has been, never will be) OK to physically assault and/or kill your partner because they had sex with somebody else. Marriage does not confer that kind of ownership! The only appropriate "punishment" for adultery is divorce. Anything else is in violation of man's law. A judge who shows leniency for that kind of savagery because of what the Bible has to say on the subject is unfit for secular public service. Maybe his faith and piety would be more effectively applied to a position in the clergy.


You are now equating domestic violence with misogyny, I disagree with that since domestic violence can happen to anyone. I can't say it's misogyny specifically because we haven't had a similar case with the genders reversed, like I could look at a man getting jailed for robbery and say it's misandry because I choose to ignore what would happen if a woman was caught robbing too. And it doesn't matter what type of punishment we find "appropriate" since different countries hold different values, if I was in Saudi Arabia someone would chop my hand off for stealing. I can't complain about that since those are the laws and customs of the country and they'd hold true to anyone. What we have in that article is a case of a court from a different country that may not hold the same values as us making a decision that while we may not support ourselves we can't say it's sexist and therefore unfair (in accordance with their values) unless we have a case with genders reversed that would prove otherwise.


EDIT: Regardless, I think we need more details with that case because I feel it might have been leaving some things out which could be important.
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Re: Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's ass

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:40 am

DoglovingJim wrote:I can't say it's misogyny specifically because we haven't had a similar case with the genders reversed, like I could look at a man getting jailed for robbery and say it's misandry because I choose to ignore what would happen if a woman was caught robbing too.


Fair enough, but I'd like to point out (and I know it's beside the point) that there has actually been some legitimate controversy over the difference in sentencing for violent crimes... a difference that seemingly favors women. Generally, women are given shorter sentences, but they end up serving about the same amount of time because there's rarely a need to "make room" with early releases in their prisons. In the end, it balances out, but women do get shown more leniency by judges and that (understandably) rankles with a lot of people.

Setting aside the whole gender politics angle, I'm pretty sure Portuguese culture does NOT condone this degree of violence in any other circumstance. Remember, this guy took a look at a ball bat and decided that it wouldn't hurt enough, so he drove nails in it and beat her until she was "covered in bruises and cuts." Had he done something like that to anyone else for any other reason, I am confident (without needing to be an expert in Portuguese law) that he would be sitting out a lengthy jail sentence and not sent home with a fine and a stern warning.

Letting that kind of savagery slide because "adultery is bad" will never, ever be OK with me. I don't care what kind of cultural excuses are produced, letting men (or women) get away with violence because their spouse "dishonored" them in some abstract fashion is a Very. Bad. Thing. and I will unabashedly shake my Shaming Finger at this judge. For the record, I was equally outraged when Lorena Bobbit (more or less) got away with cutting off her husband's dick while he slept!
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Re: Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's ass

Postby DoglovingJim » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:52 am

DamianaRaven wrote:Setting aside the whole gender politics angle, I'm pretty sure Portuguese culture does NOT condone this degree of violence in any other circumstance. Remember, this guy took a look at a ball bat and decided that it wouldn't hurt enough, so he drove nails in it and beat her until she was "covered in bruises and cuts."


I'm kind of surprised that it was only bruises and cuts, like if someone was crazed enough to put nails in a baseball bat you'd have expected them to go further. Heck even "accidentally" you'd kill someone with that. I also am not sure about the fact that it's his "ex-wife", did they separate before or after? How does it factor in with the adultery? I have lots of questions in my head, are there any more detailed articles on the matter?
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Re: Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's ass

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:04 am

This is the only other article I could find without the exact same headline, but it appears to be much the same information.

Again, I am just talking out of my ass here and NOT quoting scientific fact, but it's been my lifelong observation that guys like this do not tend to have a gender-balanced view on things like adultery. In the Old School Christian worldview, cheating is looked upon as something a man "can't really help," but The Ultimate Betrayal when a woman does it. It all boils down to the our reptilian instincts not to waste resources on children that secretly aren't our own - a problem women never have to face, which is probably why we tend to be a little more gracious (or at least, less paranoid and violent) about infidelity.
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Re: Outrage after Portugal court quotes Bible on woman's ass

Postby DamianaRaven » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:27 pm

CNN has picked up the story and published a bit more detail. Apparently, he teamed up with his ex-wife's ex-lover to commit this assault.

According to court documents, the ex-lover restrained her while the man hit her in the head and body with the club. Injuries from the beating to the head required her to get five stitches.


To my mind, that answers the question of why she wasn't killed. This attack was controlled and carefully contrived to inflict maximum pain without doing any real damage that might gain her some legal sympathy.
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