Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners...

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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:44 am

Ensures. (I'm sorry - it really is a fucking sickness sometimes!)
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby Lindvaettr » Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:44 pm

DamianaRaven wrote:As to the unspoken insinuation that everyone behind bars deserves to be treated like a rented farm animal, it bears reminding that there are a holy shitload of innocent people sitting in jail for crimes they didn't commit.

I know it wasn't your intention to suggest that there are no innocent people in prison, but what about them - do we just shrug off the innocent as collateral damage and hope that maybe they appreciate being taught how to sew in the form of being forced to make McDonald's uniforms in order to finance their own kidnapping?


I agree more or less entirely with your previous post, so I won't respond to it other than to say that I see absolutely no reason why employers should be able to ask about your criminal background, or that people previously jailed for felonies should continue to have their rights infringed upon by preventing them from voting (see Spoiler). Punishment for a crime should extend exactly as long as the prison sentence. That's why we have sentence lengths. They shouldn't continue on indefinitely.

Spoiler: show
The same could be said about their loss of second amendment rights, considering that most released felons who use guns would probably acquire them illegally anyway (for a number of other reasons I won't get in to here), but I'd have a hard time supporting this argument, and my opinion on this tends to change with the tides.


In regards to your quote above, there are absolutely a tremendous number of innocent people in prison. However, to me that's much more an issue of earlier steps on the ladder of the justice system failing, and convicting someone wrongfully or incorrectly. Personally, I believe that, when convicts enter the prison system, we must assume they're guilty (as they've been found to be), until they're able to prove their innocence (as the current system works, once you've been proven guilty originally). If we assume innocence after we declare someone guilty, we're essentially saying that we have so little faith in our own justice system that we believe so many innocent people are in prison that we can no longer justify treating any prisoner as guilty, because there's such a high chance he (or she) is innocent.

We need to recognize that many prisoners are, in fact, innocent, but that's an issue that needs to be addressed by reforming the system of justice that occurs before prison. Innocent people shouldn't go to prison at all, if there's even a tiny sliver of a way to prevent it, but once they do end up in prison, we unfortunately need to treat them as guilty. Otherwise, I believe we'll end up severely undermining our already troubled justice system.
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:18 pm

Knowing what I know, I can't really get on board with the notion that everyone in prison has been "proven guilty." As mentioned in the link I provided, only about 5% of cases actually even go to trial. Because of the way our fucked-up bail system works, TONS of perfectly innocent people are conned into pleading guilty. Why would ANYONE ever plead guilty for something they didn't do? Well, here's an example:

Let's say you were arrested for stealing a riding lawn mower that you never so much as looked at. That's grand theft - a felony - so the judge sets your bail at ten thousand dollars. That might as well be ten million for all you'd be able to produce it. Unfortunately, you can't even come up with the (completely nonrefundable, even if you're found innocent) thousand dollars demanded by a bondsman. The fact that they won't let you go to work means you can't even pay your bills until they let you out. If you don't, your shit will be dumped on the sidewalk and (again, even with an innocent verdict) you'll get out of jail homeless, with ZERO belongings. (Sorry about your car, but that got impounded as soon as you were evicted and it's $200 plus $60 a day if you want it back.)

After sitting in jail for two or three months, on the brink of losing EVERYTHING, your lawyer comes along and tells you a couple of things. Number one is that the courts are backed up, so it's gonna be about another year until they can get around to trying you. Meanwhile, since you don't have a criminal record, the prosecutor is willing to give you time served and a year of probation... IF you plead guilty to this crime you didn't commit. Even if you're found GUILTY, the maximum sentence for that crime will be a year - about three months LESS than you'd sit there awaiting trial. Of course, you can go home today if you just sign this paper pleading guilty. Remember, even if you're found INNOCENT, you'll still be homeless and jobless and without a vehicle, so tell me what you think you'd do in that situation? Imagine how much more difficult that decision would be if you were a black man in a very white and racist jurisdiction.

The bottom line is that you can't just assume that everyone in prison deserves to be there because they were either "proven guilty" (often meaning little more than a prosecutor talked a jury into convicting - people are routinely convicted on nothing more than eyewitness testimony and circumstantial evidence) or they "confessed." As I've pointed out, those who "confess" are often forced to do so by a VERY cruel and unfair system.

I'd also like to reiterate my point that it shouldn't be cheap and easy for taxpayers to just throw people in prison and let them rot. Making the process "self-funding" is probably one of the main reasons we have more prisoners (both raw numbers and per capita) than ANY other nation in the world... and that includes fascist shit holes like Myanmar and North Korea. Prison is supposed to be a last resort and yet we're happily throwing children into the penal system for the least little excuse!

So, knowing all of this, do you still think that most people in prison totally deserve to be used like slaves? I don't. Even the ones that are actually and literally GUILTY of their accused crime don't deserve to be forced to make their captivity cheap, easy, and profitable for society. The more you force people to provide valuable services for free, the more people will get locked up JUST to feed the demand for free labor. You heard it from this one sheriff with your own ears! A few years back, some asshat in California made a very similar lament about their parole system. "If we let too many prisoners go, we won't have enough people to fight off these wildfires."
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby mancityfooty » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:06 pm

I'm just going to say that there is a hell of a lot of difference between making license plates, clothing, telephone customer service, and even the day to day maintenance and different chores (laundry, kitchen, groundskeeping, etc) required to keep a prison running well, and doing chores for a certain group of people.

they aren't the same thing.
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:31 pm

Ironically, I don't really have much problem with the idea of making prisoners do "chores" that directly relate to the running of the prison. I suspect most inmates would actually rather cook for themselves and do their own laundry than to have the prison hire someone who doesn't have to eat the slop they serve or wear the clothes that are laundered. Most prisoners (and let's not pretend I haven't known a few) would MUCH rather be given something to do than sit and stare at the walls all day.

However, like Mr. Footy pointed out, there's a HUGE difference between making a person devote a few hours every day to maintaining their own living environment and forcing them to work 12-hour shifts six days a week (often in absurdly dangerous and abusive conditions since OSHA doesn't apply to prisoners) just to pad the profit margins of whatever private corporation made the biggest campaign donation.

It's slavery and it SUCKS. Nobody deserves to be worked like a rented mule and have the fruits of their labor snatched from them simply because "you're a criminal, so fuck you."
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby mancityfooty » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:53 pm

then we can talk about this: https://www.revealnews.org/article/they-thought-they-were-going-to-rehab-they-ended-up-in-chicken-plants/

a drug "rehab" program in northern Oklahoma* that makes people, some of whom aren't even addicts, work for days at chicken plants to keep from going to jail.
there is no rehab, there is barely any counseling (so long as it doesn't interfere with work schedules) and it's still going on.

*edit*, also southwest Missouri.
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:02 pm

I'm pretty sure I've linked that very story somewhere else on this site, because it's a pretty appalling example of what's gone wrong with the whole "inmate labor" scheme. The picture of that smug, slave-driving cunt in charge of this program made me want to punch my own monitor! A lot of people have convincingly argued that prison laborers are probably treated WORSE than chattel slaves were, because the people using them don't actually own them and have no vested interest in keeping them healthy, since it costs NOTHING to replace a fallen worker. (In fact, most private prisons DEMAND a minimum occupancy rate with the brazen audacity of innumerable monkeys.) The fact that they're locked in a cage under armed guard means they don't even have to keep them content enough not to revolt, so it's not very difficult for me to believe that being a prison slave is (at least) every bit as unpleasant and abusive as any other kind of slavery!
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Last edited by DamianaRaven on Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:08 pm

One reason I'm surprised this place is still in business is that if a worker gets hurt, they throw the injured worker back into the prison system, file for workman's comp and pocket every dime of the money. How is that not FRAUD?
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby sunglasses » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:34 am

Why the double post instead of adding to your post?

Anyway it's well known that private prisons and the prison labor system is flawed.

You don't magically get money from workers comp. It only covers certain medical expenses. So they aren't really pocketing Jack shit.

The only way you get money being off work-whether work comp or not-is if your employer ops to pay you with paid leave. They don't over paid leave? You're sol-no matter who you are.
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby DamianaRaven » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:09 am

Can they be merged? I wasn't thinking and will try not to do that in the future. As to the workers' comp claims, here's the specific accusation quoted from the (very long) article about the chicken-plant "rehab."

Brandon Spurgin was working in the chicken plants one night in 2014 when a metal door crashed down on his head, damaging his spine and leaving him with chronic pain, according to medical records. CAAIR filed for workers’ compensation on his behalf and took the $4,500 in insurance payments. Spurgin said he got nothing.


How are they getting "insurance payments" when they don't provide medical care?

“That’s fraudulent behavior,” said Eddie Walker, a former judge with the Arkansas Workers’ Compensation Commission. He said workers’ comp payments are required to go to the injured worker. “What’s being done is clearly inappropriate.”
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby Grimstone » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:43 am

DamianaRaven wrote:Why would ANYONE ever plead guilty for something they didn't do?


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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby sunglasses » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:46 pm

Insurance payments normally go straight to the physician, where I work. It's possible on their state they go to the worker to pay for medical bills.

Jails give piss poor care, no joke. It's possible they'll try to claim that's why they seized it-that they provided the medical care.

And yeah, pleading guilty when you've and nothing is the name of the game. It's what most public defenders tell you to do, and is how you normally get less time then you would if you go to trial.

And there are whole documentaries on coerced confessions.
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby DamianaRaven » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:34 pm

It's pretty hard for them to claim that they provided ANY kind of medical care when they're not even licensed as the "rehab facility" they claim to be. I think maybe some states more generously allow for living expenses to be covered by worker's comp. That's really the only possibility that makes sense because like you said, when medical expenses are involved, they tend to pay that directly to whom it's owed so it doesn't get intercepted and spent on something else.

One thing that struck me like a splash of water about this story is the fate of Mr. McGahey. He wasn't addicted to anything, (except maybe caffeine) just got sent there for receiving stolen property because... hey, free slave! While he was there, his hand was badly mangled and didn't get the necessary surgery in time to keep him from suffering for the rest of his life. Now, he's addicted to the narcotic pain pills he has to take every day just to function without screaming.

This place takes people who aren't even drug users (because it's an easy and lucrative place to dump people) and damages their bodies until they need drugs for the rest of their life just to function. Places like this need to be put Out. Of. Business! I don't give a rat's dingleberry if their goddamn chicken plant can't find third-shift workers. What happened to all those illegal immigrants who supposedly "stole" all the jobs like this? If your business can't find or keep employees, the answer is NOT to go, "hey, how can we force people to work for nothing." Maybe if you didn't offer eight dollars an hour with ZERO benefits for dangerous and grueling labor, you wouldn't have staffing problems!
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby sunglasses » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:40 pm

As stated, wc doesn't cover living expenses. Only medical treatment and medications.

Any way, chicken plants have long known OSHA issues no matter whom they use to staff.

And when people are jailed for receiving stolen property it's not "hey free slave." It's illegal and that's why they're there. Do I like that non violent offenders are jailed? No. But that's how it is now.

They do not mandate prisoners to work. It's offered. Stop acting like they're rounding up civvies at crosswalks and putting them to work in the fields.

And no-I'm not saying I like the current system. Don't try to claim my refusal to call it slavery infers that.
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Re: Louisiana Sheriff sulks about releasing "good" prisoners

Postby DamianaRaven » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:43 pm

sunglasses wrote:It's illegal and that's why they're there.


No, that doesn't actually explain what he's doing in a drug rehab "program" for receiving stolen property.
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