Harvey Weinstein and Victim Blaming

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Re: Harvey Weinstein and Victim Blaming

Postby cmsellers » Fri May 25, 2018 10:14 pm

I just learned about the Morgan Freeman thing from Tess. It's horrifying because this is the first time multiple #metoo accusations have hit someone I really respected. While I generally hold Hollywood in contempt, here are several male actors in Hollywood I'd really respected as people. Off the top of my head: Freeman, George Takei, Will Arnett, Neil Patrick Harris, Ted Danson, Jack McBrayer, Alan Tudyk, Chris Parnell, and Wil Wheaton. When the accusations against Takei came out, it was one case that I took as an error in judgment, and his accuser has now changed his story. However now that I see what Freeman's capable of, I wonder how many of the rest are crytocreeps as well.

On another note, there's plenty in the accusations against Freeman that goes beyond back rubbing, but the back rubbing thing is interesting to me, because of my own experiences.

See, in middle and high school at least four different female staff members would rub my back, shoulders, and arms to calm me down. Not a full on massage, but sort of up-and-down with fingernails. At the time I remember thinking two things: "this feels good" and "I'm pretty sure that there's a school policy against touching students." Obviously I didn't complain because I enjoyed it and it did calm me down. It's interesting though that I never had a male staff member try that, I presume at least in part because if I had complained the repercussions would be far more severe for a male staff member than for a female staff member.

I liked having people rub my back and it didn't feel sexual in the context of "I'm upset and someone's trying to calm me down." I don't think I'd have taken it as sexual if someone had used their actual hands rather than just fingernails either. And I think it's unfortunate that back rubbing is so commonly associated with sexual advances. Still, I sort of wonder in hindsight why these women didn't ask if they could rub my back, particularly because I'm autistic, and autistic people are often really weird about people touching them.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein and Victim Blaming

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Fri May 25, 2018 10:58 pm

And so, the penguins will come....
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Re: Harvey Weinstein and Victim Blaming

Postby Crimson847 » Sat May 26, 2018 6:34 am

Fortunately, although I like Freeman's acting, the only personal hero I've ever had from show business is this man:

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Bring it on, #MeToo. Ruin Mister Rogers for me. Make my day.
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"If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them; but the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Harvey Weinstein and Victim Blaming

Postby iMURDAu » Sat May 26, 2018 1:52 pm

The perv purge is the gift that keeps on giving.

Not to the victims, of course. Geez. I mean it's exciting not knowing who is going to be randomly taken down next. This is better for office betting than any sporting event. The Voice of God is lecherous! Who's next? Muhfuggin Wankstain is facing actual rape charges, Bill Cosby is guilty, please tell me why I'm enjoying this so much. I'll put $20 on car designer Chip Foose and $100 on that Jason Chaffetz guy from Utah. Can I still bet on Barney Frank even though his career is over?
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Re: Harvey Weinstein and Victim Blaming

Postby cmsellers » Sat May 26, 2018 7:15 pm

iMURDAu wrote:Can I still bet on Barney Frank even though his career is over?

Barney Frank's behavior was like that of Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey: unethical as fuck, but not predatory.

On a different note, #metoo has had the interesting effect of exonerating Woody Allen, who I was convinced for hears had raped his daughter Dylan Farrow. See, for a long time Woody Allen was the only person I was willing to believe was guilty on the strength of one accusation. I knew how dangerous this is, particularly when #metoo started and made it clear that actual predators will have multiple victims.

However Dylan Farrow's story seemed credible to me because multiple members of her family backed her up, and because Woody Allen is a creep who married Soon-Yi Previn and excused Roman Polanski. And honestly, in hindsight, I think what decided me was some of Woody Allen's supporters insisting that Dylan Farrow wasn't his daughter, she was his adopted daughter, which reminds me of Whoopie Goldberg's comment that Roman Polanski didn't commit "rape-rape." If the best his supporters could do is arguing that he didn't see her as a daughter (the same justifications that his supporters gave for his creepy relationship with Soon Yi), then Allen was clearly guilty.

However Max just shared this blog post that Moses Farrow wrote a few days ago. Moses starts with the typical excuses for Allen's relationship with Soon Yi, and honestly the rest of the post undermines those, which I'll comment on momentarily. But with regards to Mia and Dylan Farrow, it paints things in a whole different light.

From Moses Farrow's story, it's clear that Mia Farrow was incredibly abusive to her children, and she appears to have a B-cluster personality disorder. She also had a pattern of coaching her children to repeating and even believing the narrative that she wanted to present. Moses also makes clear that Dylan's memories are inconsistent with the design of the house. And his story makes it clear that Woody Allen did see Dylan Farrow as his actual daughter.

I feel bad for Dylan Farrow because I'm certain that she really remembers being abused by Woody Allen, but I'm now convinced that this is the result of Mia Farrow's abuse rather than Woody Allen's. Again, I'm basing this on one accusation, but Moses Farrow's story is consistent with everything I know about cluster B abusers, while one isolated incident of abuse is inconsistent with how child predators operate.

That said, Woody Allen still defended Roman Polanski, and I honestly think that Moses Farrow's story makes his relationship with Soon Yi creepier. Whether or not he viewed her as his daughter, she was a twenty-year-old emotionally vulnerable woman from an abusive household, and Woody Allen knew this.

Still, it looks to me like the Dylan Farrow story is about Mia Farrow's behavior rather than Woody Allen's. A couple of days ago, it was observed on Discord that #metoo hasn't claimed the scalps of any female abusers. And I think that Moses Farrow's post demonstrates a big part of why. I suspect that women are more likely to direct abusive behavior towards close family, which makes it both harder for outsiders to observe, and makes their victims easier to control.

I sadly suspect that it's unlikely that Mia Farrow will face justice for her behavior even in the court of public opinion (still less in an actual courtroom). But still, I hope she does. Even aside from all the other stuff she did to her kids, convincing your daughter she was raped by her father in order to win a custody dispute is simply evil.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein and Victim Blaming

Postby Aquila89 » Sat May 26, 2018 9:31 pm

cmsellers wrote:On a different note, #metoo has had the interesting effect of exonerating Woody Allen, who I was convinced for hears had raped his daughter Dylan Farrow. See, for a long time Woody Allen was the only person I was willing to believe was guilty on the strength of one accusation. I knew how dangerous this is, particularly when #metoo started and made it clear that actual predators will have multiple victims.


Well, maybe for you it exonerated him but in the court of public opinion, he's pretty much convicted. In the wake of the MeeToo movement, many high-profile actors said that they regret having worked with him, including the main stars of his latest movie. I think his career is pretty much over. His films haven't been particularly successful in recent years. Actors will think that it just isn't worth it getting involved in this clusterfuck for a chance to star in a movie that in all likelihood will get mediocre reviews and make no money. And I don't think Moses's open letter will change that.

cmsellers wrote:That said, Woody Allen still defended Roman Polanski


So did Mia Farrow. Nice to see they can still agree on some things.

cmsellers wrote:And honestly, in hindsight, I think what decided me was some of Woody Allen's supporters insisting that Dylan Farrow wasn't his daughter, she was his adopted daughter, which reminds me of Whoopie Goldberg's comment that Roman Polanski didn't commit "rape-rape."


I think what she was trying to say is that Polanski committed statutory rape, not violent rape; her victim consented but she wasn't old enough for the consent to be valid. That's not true, but it is what Polanski claimed.
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Re: Harvey Weinstein and Victim Blaming

Postby Absentia » Thu May 31, 2018 6:19 am

Weinstein was indicted today and the top count is rape in the first degree. In New York, that's considered a "Class B Violent Felony", which carries a minimum sentence of five years before any possibility of release.

His lawyer says he will plead not guilty, and that Weinstein and the woman he allegedly raped were in a consensual long-term relationship. ("The prosecution offers Exhibit A: Look at that guy. Would you date that guy?")

My prediction, as in all cases involving rich white dudes, is that when all is said and done he'll probably get off with just probation (and sex offender registration, of course).
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Re: Harvey Weinstein and Victim Blaming

Postby Absentia » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:57 pm

Bill Cosby was (finally) sentenced in the Andrea Constand case today. 3 to 10 years in prison, plus a lifetime designation as a "violent sexual predator" which will make him subject to strict monitoring requirements if he manages to live out his sentence. He declined to give a statement to the court or to the media.
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