Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

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Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:15 pm

This story is going to piss Sunny off... probably a lot! The story leading up to these events is pretty appalling. The cops were chasing someone (over a traffic infraction) and that person swerved into oncoming traffic and plowed into a totally innocent driver. (The fleeing suspect was killed in the crash.)

Knowing that they'll probably be held liable for causing this fiery tragedy when they could have just let the guy go and tracked him down later, the cops showed up at the hospital demanding blood from the VICTIM in order to fish around for any excuse to say it wasn't their fault. In such a situation, only the most corrupt of judges would issue a search warrant, so they thought they'd get around that silly "civil rights" bullshit by bullying the staff. Luckily, the awesomely-named Nurse Wubbels called bullshit on this plan and refused to cooperate. I really hope she buys herself something nice with her share of the giant lawsuit settlement!

Given the way they behaved with the brazen audacity of innumerable monkeys, I'm not entirely sure they wouldn't have paid off a corrupt lab to "test" the sample and "find" all sorts of incriminating "evidence."
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Last edited by DamianaRaven on Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby sunglasses » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:50 pm

I found a link to the same story from Vox as well.

A Utah police officer earlier this year manhandled and arrested a nurse because she wouldn’t let him break the law.

The chain of events was caught on body camera video at the University of Utah Hospital. After consulting with hospital staff, nurse Alex Wubbels tells Salt Lake City detective Jeff Payne that he is not allowed legally or under hospital policy to draw blood from an unconscious patient, because — by Payne’s own admission — he didn’t have a warrant (or probable cause) or consent, and the patient wasn’t under arrest.


Police argued that they were using an “implied consent” law, but such a law hasn’t been in place in Utah since 2007. The US Supreme Court also ruled in 2016 that the Constitution requires a warrant or consent for blood tests — meaning that Payne’s expedition was in violation of constitutional law, not just hospital policy.

The police department is now internally investigating the incident, according to the Salt Lake Tribune. Payne was suspended from the department’s blood-draw program (which involves officers, like Payne, trained as phlebotomists), but he remains on active duty.


So, a few things here. I did watch the video and it sounds like she had either her supervisor or department head on speaker phone. The person was flat out telling the officer that he was making a mistake. The nurse HAS to follow hospital policy. We are trained to always check with hospital management before we acquiesce a request from any LEOs as they have a history of brow beating staff into doing things that aren't in the best interest of the patient.

Not only was the officer's request not actually lawful, but him arresting the nurse (who had other patients!) who was doing her job and following proper procedure and policy is beyond the pale in my opinion.

I'm happy to see that other hospital staff and security followed them outside and were trying to talk to/explain things to the officer. It was probably futile, but still I'm very happy to see they stood by her.

She's not suing yet, but I think she should.

Edit: full video here

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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:00 pm

I hope she sues him personally and not the police department. She won't get as much (if any) money, but a court judgment against HIM will make his life A LOT more miserable than one against the city. This wasn't an act of good-faith ignorance on the officer's part, it was a premeditated fishing expedition cast in a desperate hope to get their department out of the trouble they were facing for causing death and major injuries by engaging in a high-speed chase that should have been abandoned. Once they call in your tag number and the car isn't stolen, the ONLY reason to keep up a speeding pursuit is for the thrill of the chase. "Motherfucker isn't getting away on MY watch." Because of this cowboy attitude (which has been expressly prohibited by many police handbooks) one man is dead and another is badly injured.

Again, given the way they behaved just about collecting the "sample," there's NO WAY I would trust them to just carry off that evidence for "testing." I don't know this for sure, but my instinct tells me they had no intention of letting anyone outside their little crime lab actually run any tests on the blood.
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby DamianaRaven » Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:09 pm

What's especially weird about this story is that the victim they're trying to illegally incriminate is also a fucking COP!
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby SandTea » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:54 pm

Sometimes I wonder if I wouldn't take the "paid vacation" route if I hated my job.

This feels like an ego thing. "You can't tell me 'no' because-
Spoiler: show
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I'm not surprised but am still disappointed.
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby DamianaRaven » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:13 pm

I have a question - why are we "training officers as phlebotomists"? I see this as an EXTREMELY ominous portent of things to come.
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby iMURDAu » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:22 pm

If there's good cops out there why aren't they policing the police force? Stories like this are why I laugh a little bit when I see "the thin blue line" shit on bumper stickers and t-shirts. Cops want respect and adoration but they don't give a fuck about the law. They just want you to follow their orders.

"Shit on the constitution and lose your job or you're under arrest! *sticks fingers in ears* Na na I can't hear you talking about that stupid legal stuff."

And Trump wants officers to have more access to military surplus. Get ready for some police departments to become paramilitary organizations that still can't seem to solve the opiate crisis and still have poor community relations. Watch for an RPG (not like Star Ocean!) to be busted out during a minor drug bust somewhere.
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby DamianaRaven » Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:02 pm

Furthermore, he's caught on tape after the fact talking about how he brings patients to hospitals and for this, "he'll bring the transients here and take the good patients somewhere else." Not only is this practice probably grossly illegal, it says a lot about his mentality that he thinks there are "good patients" and then there's human trash that can be pelted at people as "punishment."
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby CarrieVS » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:18 pm

DamianaRaven wrote:It says a lot about his mentality that he thinks there are "good patients" and then there's human trash that can be pelted at people as "punishment."


Possibly, although by 'good' patients he may just mean patients who are likely to have insurance or be able to pay their bill.
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby ghijkmnop » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:21 pm

WaPo (and others) says that the idiot ex-phlebotamist cop wanted blood not to clear his own name, but to have evidence that the burn victim was not responsible for the crash.
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby D-LOGAN » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:53 pm

iMURDAu wrote:If there's good cops out there why aren't they policing the police force? Stories like this are why I laugh a little bit when I see "the thin blue line" shit on bumper stickers and t-shirts. Cops want respect and adoration but they don't give a fuck about the law. They just want you to follow their orders.


See, I can't really sign on with this. The whole ALL cops are bad stuff. They ALL think this or think that. Personally I would imagine police officers are just like any other group of people, good ones and bad ones and mostly just folks doing a job. Oh obviously there's corruption and incompetence and areas that desperately need improvement but ... just tarring them ALL with the same bad brush ... nah.

I mean there is like internal affairs and cops being reprimanded and fired and whatnot, I see stuff like that. Like I have no doubt there's a 'look after our own' mentality in there as you'll probably find almost anywhere, but I put that down to problems to work on, rather than a condemnation of every individual who signs up.

Just my take anyways.
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby Krashlia » Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:59 pm

ghijkmnop wrote:WaPo (and others) says that the idiot ex-phlebotamist cop wanted blood not to clear his own name, but to have evidence that the burn victim was not responsible for the crash.


Aint that something that could just be explained?
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby jbobsully11 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:36 pm

iMURDAu wrote:Watch for an RPG (not like Star Ocean!) to be busted out during a minor drug bust routine traffic stop somewhere.

FTFY.
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby iMURDAu » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:19 pm

D-LOGAN wrote:
iMURDAu wrote:If there's good cops out there why aren't they policing the police force? Stories like this are why I laugh a little bit when I see "the thin blue line" shit on bumper stickers and t-shirts. Cops want respect and adoration but they don't give a fuck about the law. They just want you to follow their orders.


See, I can't really sign on with this. The whole ALL cops are bad stuff. They ALL think this or think that. Personally I would imagine police officers are just like any other group of people, good ones and bad ones and mostly just folks doing a job. Oh obviously there's corruption and incompetence and areas that desperately need improvement but ... just tarring them ALL with the same bad brush ... nah.

I mean there is like internal affairs and cops being reprimanded and fired and whatnot, I see stuff like that. Like I have no doubt there's a 'look after our own' mentality in there as you'll probably find almost anywhere, but I put that down to problems to work on, rather than a condemnation of every individual who signs up.

Just my take anyways.


I'm not saying they're all bad. I've dealt with cops who were pleasant and even helpful. But at roll call they stand next to some legit monsters. People who have a chip on their shoulder and HEY YOU BETTER BE LISTENING TO ME *tazes D-Logan just to make sure* shouldn't be policing the streets. They think they're good guys fighting bad guys. Why aren't the actual decent humans on police forces standing up and saying "first let's learn the laws, then cut the racism, sexism, and classism so we can just treat everyone like they're another human being"?

Liberals and conservatives typically condemn the extreme factions on their sides. How about the rank and file cops doing the same? Instead it's always a presser with a chief who acts confused as to how their officer could act like a power hungry maniac. The cop "loses their job" but can still be an officer elsewhere. So they can continue their ways in another city. Why is it if I got fired for breaking the law (that I'm not even supposed to enforce) that it would be nearly impossible to find work in the same field? They certainly do take care of each other.

In this case, the officer's supervisor was on board with him arresting someone who was following the law. That shows a lack of education. Imo a cop that's worth a shit would be knowledgeable in the law. It is their job to enforce it. How do you build a case that can be prosecuted if your main concern is being a prime alpha male who doesn't have time for pussy ass court shit?

It's kind of silly that hospitals are more up on training their staff in the law than police departments are. But when you consider the legal ramifications of not following the law, the hospital would be in big trouble. The police deparment? I'll refer you back to the press conference with Chief Clueless who probably doesn't know the law either.
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Re: Police "Arrest" Nurse For Refusing to Break the Law

Postby ghijkmnop » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:51 pm

Krashlia wrote:
ghijkmnop wrote:WaPo (and others) says that the idiot ex-phlebotamist cop wanted blood not to clear his own name, but to have evidence that the burn victim was not responsible for the crash.


Aint that something that could just be explained?


It might be more difficult when there is a fatality.
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