Secret Moderator Guidelines?

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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby FaceTheCitizen » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:01 pm

Kate wrote:The basement. You know the one...


Funny you posted this because I have been recently thinking of doing another game. No promises, especially since I haven't actually sat down and thought of rules, items, goals, etc. yet and it may never happen, but I've been wanting to revive Haunted House in some form.

If it ever happens, the title would be "Haunted House: The Reckoning of the Revenging of the Reckoning."
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby MisterKrinkle » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:55 pm

So we started with talking about Ariana Grande making a terrible attempt to fellate some donuts, and we ended up at a moderator conspiracy thread.

Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how beautiful ADD TCS is?
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby NathanLoiselle » Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:01 pm

I think we should start a poll detailing who exactly is the man in this discussion. Marcuse, Kate, Tess, Avi, or Santa Clause?
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Kate » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:36 pm

aviel wrote:Yes, because I don't distrust your intentions. I don't think you're intending to act immorally or dishonestly, and I am sure you are trying to do the right thing. But in failing to make these guidelines public, you are failing to do so.

...

I think you may not understand the implications of the rules you've written with respect to user expectations. It's possible you do, but I can't know that until we see them.

FaceTheCitizen wrote:They've been publicized for two years.

Kate told me in the CAaSS thread that there were secret moderator guidelines I would "never see".

So it is option two; you do not think we understand the guidelines we've written for ourselves and our own operating procedures and what we expect of each other. This is less like not knowing that police issue warrants, and more like not knowing a police department's procedure for deciding who is going to work next Thursday and who is going to be partnered up with whom. I disagree with you; I see no moral reason to make these public, as we have made public exactly what your responsibilities as a user are, what we can do if you fail in those responsibilities, and your recourse for when you feel your rights are being violated. We have a very great degree of transparency for a forum, in my opinion. If you do not agree, well...maybe we visit different forums. And yeah, as Marcuse said, you're taking a statement I made about rules we have for each other that we'll never see pretty seriously; it was 30 hours of being awake, I was incredibly emotionally drained, I misspoke when I said rules instead of guidelines, and it covers nothing that you don't already know in the general sense. I apologize for the distress I've caused, I did not mean to imply that we have a secret set of rules that are changing mod behavior in any way.

I do not believe it is unreasonable to have anxiety about feeling out of control about something which you've invested a lot of time in and I don't want to see anyone give you a hard time over feeling anxious and I certainly wish to resolve this anxiety, but I do agree with Tess on this.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:45 pm

Jack Road wrote:I know my paranoia has clashed against the Secret Moderator Forum before, and perhaps we could call it something less enticing like "Moderation Discussion Forum" but come on, we have less active members than a large English 101 Class.


One of the things you'd be expected to know in such a class is that it's fewer, not less. Less refers to an amount, as in "there's less water in my glass." Fewer refers to a number of items, as in "there are fewer ice cubes in my glass." Image
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Australia » Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:11 pm

You have Hitler ice cubes in your glass?

Also people write with lisps? Who knew?
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby CarrieVS » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:59 am

DamianaRaven wrote:One of the things you'd be expected to know in such a class is that it's fewer, not less. Less refers to an amount, as in "there's less water in my glass." Fewer refers to a number of items, as in "there are fewer ice cubes in my glass." Image



A quantized amount is still an amount. You couldn't have a smaller number of water (unless you meant molecules, but that would be a weird way of talking about water outside of very specific contexts, and you'd probably say molecules) but you can have a smaller amount of people which also happens to be a smaller number. This may or may not be why 'fewer water' is not a thing people say but 'less people' is, but it's certainly consistent.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Tesseracts » Thu Jul 23, 2015 1:39 pm

Aviel... If you do choose to go to another forum I guarantee you won't find one with more transparent leadership than us. We communicate as much as we can.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby CarrieVS » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:22 pm

Australia wrote:Where are the kidneys hidden?


A locked room with no mirrors or reflective surfaces.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Australia » Thu Jul 23, 2015 5:42 pm

CarrieVS wrote:
Australia wrote:Where are the kidneys hidden?


A locked room with no mirrors or reflective surfaces.


Oh, right, because people in glasshouses aren't allowed to throw kidney stones.

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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby CarrieVS » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:05 pm

Australia wrote:Oh, right, because people in glasshouses aren't allowed to throw kidney stones.


Well that too, I guess.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby DomaDoma » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:28 pm

This is about as non-tyrannical as bulletin boards get, so I'm not really all that worried about the state of the forum, but I must wonder how on earth publishing the guidelines would cost more money than any other post.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Marcuse » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:37 pm

This is about as non-tyrannical as bulletin boards get, so I'm not really all that worried about the state of the forum, but I must wonder how on earth publishing the guidelines would cost more money than any other post.


Because people are mistaking guidelines for a simple, easy to read list of things we have neatly collated and prepared for publication. Sadly enough, that's not how real life works, especially when we're all learning the roles as we grow into them. As I said before, the majority of what is being referred to guidelines is sandwiched between plenty of other sensitive information about our discussions, the site and users, and it's not a small or simple task to parse that out and make it suitable for publication. It simply isn't.

Let's take an example, the recent IRC logs regarding this issue, which we have stored, are 67 pages long. I know that because I spent several hours last night going back through those logs and highlighting relevant passages in order to make that log usable for reference. That's just a small fraction of the time it would take to excise and remove all the different things we use to make what we do simpler and more understandable from the rest of the information we have. In terms of hours, I'd estimate it in the several hundreds, and I don't have that much free time to give. Which is why I suggested that it's relevant that nobody is paid for this job, and we're giving free time to do so in order to have a nice place to talk about stuff. When you start talking about employing hundreds of hours of people's time you need to consider whether people are capable and prepared to give that time, and whether it's reasonable to expect people to employ their free time in service to such a goal.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Tesseracts » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:44 pm

I second what Marcuse said. Everyone devotes a lot of volunteer time to TCS and if we don't budget our time it will become a huge burden.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Kate » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:56 pm

Those are good reasons. And related to that, we simply do not have the manpower or coverage to make up for the vulnerability that it would open up to post them, and historically adding more mods hasn't increased coverage as much as it has kept up with rising demands. We aren't lying when we say we are being as transparent as we possibly can be for a volunteer force without compromising our safety and making more work for ourselves, and we are kind of overworked at times as it is. I'm not saying that as a plea for pity or praise, but because it is directly related to this issue.
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