Secret Moderator Guidelines?

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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Taluun » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:46 pm

Most of the posts in this thread seem to be heavily based in sarcasm to me. Maybe thats the point and everyone is in on it because of the IRC or something.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Dr. Ambiguous » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:50 pm

@Taluun It's not, the entire discussion is in earnest. There's probably some sarcasm mixed in there too, but it's in support of an earnest discussion. I don't have time to get into it right now, because I need sleep.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby CarrieVS » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:56 pm

aviel wrote:
CarrieVS wrote:You seem to have missed my point. The point is that a list of rules and what the mods can and should do to enforce them has been published.

It's apparently not a complete list. We should be able to see the complete list.


It is a complete list. If the mods do anything outside the published rules or beyond their remit according to the published rules, then that's abuse of authority and appropriate actions can and should be taken, regardless of whether any unpublished guideline told them to do it.

I see no problem with having more detailed instructions about how to do the things they're obliged and allowed to do, or reason why these instructions not being public is any kind of abuse.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Learned Nand » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:58 pm

CarrieVS wrote:It is a complete list.

Demonstrably not.

I see no problem with having more detailed instructions about how to do the things they're obliged and allowed to do, or reason why these instructions not being public is any kind of abuse.

You need reason why they shouldn't be made public, not reason why they should be. You have misplaced the burden of proof.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby CarrieVS » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:59 pm

aviel wrote:You need reason why they shouldn't be made public, not reason why they should be. You have misplaced the burden of proof.


You're the one asking for something to be changed.

You were, apparently, content with the rules and mod powers and level of accountability. So no mod actions within those rules and powers ought to be either unexpected or problematic to you. So what is your issue?
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Last edited by CarrieVS on Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Learned Nand » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:59 pm

CarrieVS wrote:
aviel wrote:You need reason why they shouldn't be made public, not reason why they should be. You have misplaced the burden of proof.


You're the one asking for something to be changed.


Yes, for a thing to be publicized. You need a reason to keep a secret, not a reason to tell somebody something that may affect them.
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He tested with Turing,
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Australia » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:12 pm

Where are the kidneys hidden? #GuidelineGate
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Kate » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:16 pm

I will put it to you this way, avi.

If we were secretly conspiring to have a list of guidelines that would affect you in any negative way, we would not argue this, we would publish a fake list of guidelines and let you debate them forever. Or at least I would, because I'm a redhead and therefore evil.

If we cannot be trusted when we say that this is all they are, but don't publish them, then you can't trust anything we publish. Period. Because you don't have the good faith necessary to trust that it is the correct list.

There is always going to have to be a measure of trust that users place in the moderation team. You do not owe us your full trust, however, we also do not owe you our guidelines. And Carrie has phrased it beautifully, guidelines is the more correct term, and they do not say anything you do not already know about what we can and cannot do. If you cannot or do not trust that, I understand that, but logically you also can't trust anything we say at that point.

I promise you that you can trust this. I understand that my promise is not good enough for you. I wish it was, and will endeavor to conduct myself in a manner that will demonstrate that my primary concern is, and always has been, you, and every other user here.

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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:19 pm

Avi, I'm going to side with the mods on this. You fucked yourself with that belligerent, demanding, almost hostile tone. I'm the one who wrote the first draft of these guidelines and I can assure you that there's nothing nefarious going on. I think you know that - you're just being nosy and petulant. I suspect that had you asked nicely, perhaps in private, the mods would have been happy to satisfy your curiosity. I guess now we'll never know. I don't know what's gotten into you last night and today, but you need to chill out and stop acting like you run this damn forum.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Tesseracts » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:28 pm

Damiana you do not speak for the mods and have no authority to speculate that we would reveal this information if Avi was more polite.

Aviel, your demands are not only unreasonable and entitled, but also entirely illogical. You have known for quite some time we have a secret mod forum. You never complained. It only makes sense that our secret forum contains information we aren't eager to share.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Marcuse » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:29 pm

Okay, let's try and keep things civil here. I understand this is a very frustrating subject to have dragged up again, but we don't need to malign each other while we're doing it.
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:33 pm

Tesseracts wrote:Damiana you do not speak for the mods and have no authority to speculate that we would reveal this information if Avi was more polite.


Well, that's kind of uncalled for, but whatever...
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Taluun » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:46 pm

Part of the reason I thought there was so much sarcasm was because the thread seemed to get hostile very, very quickly which seems very odd to me.

On amother note I am pretty sure everyone has the authority to speculate on literally anything...
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Jack Road » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:01 pm

Spoiler: show
Image


I know my paranoia has clashed against the Secret Moderator Forum before, and perhaps we could call it something less enticing like "Moderation Discussion Forum" but come on, we have less active members than a large English 101 Class. Do we really need this severity of tone?
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Re: Secret Moderator Guidelines?

Postby Learned Nand » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:04 pm

My concern isn't that anything nefarious is going on. I don't think the moderators would deliberately do something problematic, but they might accidentally, and as such it's reasonable that users know about this. Again, nobody has provided a compelling reason why the guidelines shouldn't be released. Tone certainly doesn't count.
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
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