What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby Learned Nand » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:10 am

I don't see how; I don't think this decision is to be made on a democratic basis, and as nobody has so far proposed an alternative to my suggested standards that satisfies the vagueness principle, there's not anything to vote on yet.
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:12 am

*starts climbing over the table with murder in her eyes, only to meet with abrupt resistance from behind*

Goddamn it, Pov, turn loose of me!
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby Andropov4 » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:14 am

DamianaRaven wrote:*starts climbing over the table with murder in her eyes, only to meet with abrupt resistance from behind*

Goddamn it, Pov, turn loose of me!


Put down the knife, and I'll consider it.
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:15 am

Andropov4 wrote:Put down the knife, and I'll consider it.


No - I need that for stabbing. Hey, put me the fuck down! Where are you hauling me? Somebody heeeeelp!
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby Dr. Ambiguous » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:42 am

Can we please stop derailing every thread into the two of you flirting with each other? It's off topic and disruptive, and frankly annoying.
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:54 am

Dr. Ambiguous wrote:Can we please stop derailing every thread into the two of you flirting with each other?


Every thread? Since you're not using colored text, I presume you're asking me as a fellow member and not as a moderator. Either way, it's not necessary to resort to hyperbole - I find that every bit as annoying and disrespectful as you do our silliness. Also, it bears mentioning that you people have not even begun to see us flirting. Even so, I'll knock it off if it's getting obnoxious.
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby Dr. Ambiguous » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:59 am

Alright, so I'm gonna be that guy that actually agrees with avi. At least in part. I'll start on where I agree.

The purpose of CAASS is ambiguous. Joke all you want about ho Dr. Ambiguous has an issue with that, but I do. I like things to be very clear cut and well defined. I don't like vague purposes or rules. And that's the issue I have with CAASS, is that it's purpose is somewhat vague. It's purpose, just like any other sub-forum, should be clear and well-defined. (Yeah, I'm the Rule Nazi of the mod team).

Speaking personally, there's a lot of threads in CAASS that I personally don't feel belong in there, as according to how I interpret the purpose of CAASS. Yes, my interpretation. Without a well-defined purpose, I'm left to my own interpretation, which means I might not be interpreting it correctly. What it should be defined as is a discussion that I'l have with the rest of the mod team in private before I do so here. I'll make a few quick notes on it here, but otherwise it's a discussion I'm leaving for later.

I think avi's whitelist is too restrictive. I think a majority of celebrity oriented threads don't belong in there. Most sports threads do not. Serious news items do belong. Silly news sometimes belongs, sometimes doesn't. That's just my personal opinion, not the site's policy. The main thing I want is a well-defined purpose. I find that well defined standards make it clearer where to post things, and where you can find things.

Now I want to make a side note on the purpose of Loud Noises. LN is the debate sub-forum. Not the super serious news forum, not the heavy news sub-forum, not the sensitive topic sub-forum. The debate forum. I'm pointing that out because I saw a post or two in this thread suggesting otherwise, and it's something I've seen popping up some recently.
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby Learned Nand » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:01 am

What test would you propose to determine whether a thread belongs in CAaSS?
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:06 am

Current - occurring within the past 90 days
Events - something that actually happened (as opposed to rumors and philosophies)
Serious - at least somebody in this community feels an emotional investment in the subject
Stuff - matter and/or energy was in some way involved


If a thread can meet all four of these criteria, any further clarification would just be pedantic nitpicking.
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby Dr. Ambiguous » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:08 am

@aviel Well, like I said I want to discuss that with the mod team in private before I do so publicly on the forum. I'll also admit that I'm not entirely certain what standard I'd propose, so I need to think that over. But I do agree that we should have one.
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby Learned Nand » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:08 am

Damiana, y only concern is that your standard for "serious" is too low. for example, let's say my dog died. I may reasonably feel an emotional investment in this subject, but it doesn't constitute news. It would belong in GenDisc.
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby DamianaRaven » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:19 am

The problem is, "serious" is a matter of opinion. I'm willing to compromise by clarifying that the "current event" in question be reported by at least one semi-reputable news outlet. The other side of that compromise is you not getting to dismiss entertainment and celebrity news as too trivial to qualify.
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby Learned Nand » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:20 am

I know "serious" is a matter of opinion, that's why we should create a standard that clarifies what we mean by "serious". I did, but my concern is that yours is too broad.

I'm okay with the additional qualification that it be reported by a semi-reputable news outlet, but I think that would automatically exclude almost every news outlet, including all those that report on celebrity news.
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby Ceiling_Squid » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:37 am

This seems a bit too exacting, too precious. The topic started very vague and tense at first. It ran smack dab into generally apathetic ears, including my own.

I get the need for some standards, but I don't think I've ever had much issue with mods making personal calls. It hasn't been an abused responsibility or anything, so I don't think there's much need to codify so many specifics. And I don't believe I've come across anything objectionable, in terms of sheer inanity. Though maybe my bar is set a little low about what I'm expecting from CAaSS. I get that Aviel seems to be under the impression that CAaSS needs to be a place for notable serious business news, and I can respect that. I suppose it is implied by the title.

All right, I'll play ball. Maybe this is just something to benefit the mods and make their job easier, rather than the community members.

So I'll chime in - Last 90 days seems appropriate, so I concur with Damiana on that. Blatant speculative topics or shaky rumor ought to be moved elsewhere, so definitely a verifiable or reputable source for said news.

Noteworthiness is much harder to define. If you want, perhaps you can suggest a place for celebrity/entertainment (and I lump sports in with "entertainment") news to actually go, then? That seems to be a point of contention. Personally, I'm just not that picky or concerned about its presence, so I really can't advocate for such a move myself. But hey, I'm not a mod. I guess you need to draw the line somewhere, or not at all.

You mentioned the social justice thread was a problem as far as CAaSS goes. I somewhat agree, but only because it may not be appropriate to do a running topic that continually catalogs multiple cases on CAaSS. I think its still a valid subject of discussion, and that certain events that might be noted therein are viable topics for CAaSS, but we can't guarantee that a thread which continually compiles and debates many different events (all of varying noteworthiness) won't eventually stray from whatever standard you want to set.

It's handy, but it might go better in another forum. Probably not a bad idea to keep to one major event (plus any other directly-related events) within an individual thread, instead of bringing together several dozen occurrences connected only by subject matter.

I'm rather tired, so hopefully that post made sense.

Last-minute post-script: Damnable additional posts that popped up while I was typing - oh boy, now we're going to argue about what constitutes a "semi-reputable news outlet"? Do we need a dissertation on what disqualifies the vast majority of outlets, or can we think for ourselves and be mindful about sources as we read about the subject?

...okay then, perhaps an event is notable once it's been picked up by multiple outlets? Or at the very least, we can just leave it to the judgement of the actual people discussing the thread about whether there are inherent biases or problems that need to be addressed with the source? Some things don't need to be agonized over, geez. This is where I think we're getting way too anal-retentive.

We can rule out most obvious stuff. Daily Mail, various tabloids, obviously-satirical sites. As for the rest, I think our mods are discerning enough to make that judgement call on a case-by-case basis. I would like to think I can trust them with that degree of freedom.
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Re: What is On-Topic for CAaSS?

Postby Learned Nand » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:41 am

Even if we were to accept moderator personal calls as an acceptable standard, which the vagueness principle prohibits us from doing, the problem is that the moderators can't agree on acceptable personal calls by a wide margin. So we need something more specific.

Tess said that sports should go in gendisc. Entertainment can go in the appropriate media forum, and celebrity news can also go in gendisc.
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
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