adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:23 pm

NathanLoiselle wrote:Wait a second. My non-sequiters are obnoxious?

Potato!
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby Learned Nand » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:00 am

Kate wrote:If, worst case scenario, chat stagnates in main because people prefer chat in a non-confrontational setting, then isn't that just people having access to the environment they want?

No, the worst case scenario is that a significant population who are currently okay in #chat, but prefer #SunshineLollipops, spend their time in the latter channel, but not so many switch that it creates a community with critical mass. In other words, what could happen is that both channels end up being used infrequently enough that nobody bothers to read them, which in turn discourages people from showing up, thereby killing both channels. Just because we have enough members to sustain one main channel doesn't mean that half as many members would work.

I recognize the differences between switching clients and switching channels, but I don't see a reason to assume that those differences will be determinitive here; it could still be the case that creating another channel starves both. And ultimately, creating another channel wouldn't solve the fundamental problem here, which is that the chatroom isn't always on the topic a given person prefers.
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby Kate » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:27 am

Reducing the discomfort people have to "the chatroom isn't always on the topic a given person prefers" is dismissive. People talking about anime or video games I don't play is a topic I don't prefer. People saying, "People who say (thing that I say) are stupid" is something else. Triggering anxiety attacks is something else.

It would be easier to take your concerns about bifurcating chat seriously if you would take it seriously when other people say that this goes beyond a matter of topic preferences; you're working on a different risk benefit analysis. I'm assuming that those differences are determinitive based on literally years of IRC running with different chat rooms without it killing main chat, despite an awful lot of hand-wringing that it would. That's an almost identical situation. The risk is minimal, and the reward is pretty substantial if it makes chat more accessible. If you're viewing it as a risk with virtually no reward, then I can see making a different determination, but that relies on completely dismissing what the actual problem is here. That may be because it is framed as "politics free" and I think a better way to frame it is generally non-confrontational so it's not singling out a very specific topic that is very much in your wheelhouse.
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby Learned Nand » Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:32 am

Kate wrote:Reducing the discomfort people have to "the chatroom isn't always on the topic a given person prefers" is dismissive. People talking about anime or video games I don't play is a topic I don't prefer. People saying, "People who say (thing that I say) are stupid" is something else. Triggering anxiety attacks is something else.

Those things are all distinct, but talking about politics falls best into the first category. There are plenty of topics that people discuss in #chat that I don't want to talk about. Some of them even make me uncomfortable or annoyed; they discourage me from participating in the chatroom when they're talked about. If I want to talk about something else, I wait until it comes up, or I bring it up myself; I don't request that structure of the server be reworked to accommodate my preferences.

Are my topic preferences there less legitimate than the preference of other people not to talk about politics? If so, then this endeavor is premised on the notion that some people's feelings are more legitimate than others'. And if not, then would you be willing to create a channel free of topics I don't like?

The reason that I am not ascribing any benefit to the #SunshineLollipops channel is that it doesn't even solve the problem that you are saying it should. Even if you create a politics-free channel, both channels are still going to be full of topics that people won't like. Unless you're creating a separate channel for each topic, the problem is going to persist.
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby Kate » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:25 pm

This doesn't actually change the structure of chat. Right now we have six rooms as far as I can tell. Chat, The Van, Spoilers, Bot Spam, Shitposting, and Music. Adding one more room as a slush room to go to when main is too offputting for any reason (including the reasons that you find main offputting) is not a change to the structure of the server. It's just another channel, one more category of conversation. I didn't pull those things out of nowhere, those are things that political talk in main has inspired. Other things that make people feel unwelcome are solved by a slush room as well (there is, of course, the chance that two such things will be discussed at once, as anime and sports and such aren't confrontational but may still be off-putting, but it is still an expansion of options).

This isn't about elevating topic preferences or feelings, though again, I think that framing it as "politics free" certainly makes it feel that way. Politics is the most prominent thing that does those two things I mentioned that you acknowledged are different than just topic preference, but there are other things that are confrontational and cause anxiety as well and the idea would be that we're leaving that confrontational element out of this room. This does not infringe on your ability to discuss politics in any way, or anyone's ability to discuss anything. I am not quite sure why you think providing something that helps make chat more accessible to some users infringes on you in any possible way. In what way does this elevate anyone's feelings above your own? Why can't you, if people are discussing youtube personalities or anime or sports or something, go post in another room and say "This is boring and uncomfortable, anyone want to talk about something else?"

I fail to see how this is an unreasonable accommodation. It's open to everyone to use and it allows for greater accessibility without curtailing speech in chat. I think if we can justify having a room just to shitpost, we can justify a room just to relax.
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby Kivutar » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:33 pm

... how do I access this Discord of which you speak? Don't eat me.
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby Marcuse » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:43 pm

Kivutar wrote:... how do I access this Discord of which you speak? Don't eat me.


Sent you a PM
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby Marcuse » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:31 pm

I will add my experience of the main chatroom, I suppose as a supporting evidence of how I think an extra room is not going to affect things. Often, when I get into a really good discussion in main, its shut down by one of the following:

1. Someone complaining about the latest Trumpscepade
2. Someone dropping a link to a news site (which with images on bumps almost all the conversation off the page)
3. Someone dropping a large image of whatever video game they're playing

Now, often this results in whatever I was talking about being ignored in favour of the outrage fountain that is the Presidency. Overall, this isn't too big a problem, but if I've got more to say then having an extra room to do that in isn't exactly much of a bind if we're using it when people want to talk about more than one thing.

It also operates as a (I know, I know) safe space if people are just wanting to have a casual yammer without it being dragged into a political debate. They can often be highly stressful and the prospect of it tends to put people off wanting to contribute, and I think several other people can attest to the wearing and draining nature of something that's supposed to be casual and fun putting them off.
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby sunglasses » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:38 pm

I know I rarely get on there, but I really agree with Marc.
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby Matthew Notch » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:53 am

I haven't been on chat in forever. I cannot stand politics and I get to where I cannot stand people who are unable to have a discussion that doesn't involve politics. The SSIRC thread has two or three people posting in it regularly because the chat is a constant livestream of a dumpster fire. My biggest concern with making a new room is that I would be the only one in there, talking into the ether in case somebody comes on three hours later and sees it. Just do the thing already and let's find out how unpopular either room really would be.

Also! I want to remind people that the #SunshineLollipops room started out as a secret room by invitation only, and that was by far the more schismatic aspect of it.
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby Grimstone » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:00 am

#nicehappythings sounds boring to me.. Without controversy what would we debate? Without tragedy who would we laugh at? And proposing such a channel so close to hate week? For shame!

(Also, wouldn't it make more sense to create a #politics channel if the goal here is to separate that one topic from the main/general chat?)
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby FaceTheCitizen » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:45 pm

...
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby sunglasses » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:41 pm

Yeah, not everyone wants to debate. Some people just want to be like, OMG this kitten is so cute. LOOK AT THIS kitten!

Edit: added kitten link so I'm no longer a liar.
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby Ladki96 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:58 pm

Well? WHERE IS IT?

:( there is no kitten, y u lie sunny

Spoiler: show
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aahh, that's better *huggles*
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Re: adding a #nicehappythings channel to the Discord server

Postby Learned Nand » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:29 pm

I'm going to try and get to the core of my point here in light of several replies, so I apologize in advance if anyone feels like I am ignoring something they said that they feel makes a good point. Anyway:

Kate wrote:In what way does this elevate anyone's feelings above your own?


Because other people get a channel free of topics they don't like, but I don't get a channel free of topics I don't like. Unless you are willing to make a channel for each set of topics that a user might not like, then you're giving more legitimacy to the preferences of people who don't like political discussion than you are to the preferences of people who don't like other kinds of discussion.
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
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He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
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