Do you hate Christmas?

Discussion, in general

How much do you hate holidays?

A lot
8
12%
Sometimes
10
15%
Not really
5
8%
I have no strong feelings one way or the other
14
22%
Holidays are good
9
14%
If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem
6
9%
I like holidays
13
20%
 
Total votes : 65

Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby 52xMax » Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:53 am

I know I've posted this elsewhere, but this song by Tim Minchin comes very close to describing my exact feelings about Christmas, and holidays in general.


Except for the wine, and the sun. It actually gets pretty chilly where I live.

Some of my happiest childhood memories are from Christmas season, and they had barely anything to do with presents, as I got to spend time with my extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins, etc.) who lived far away and came to visit, we all gathered in my grandma's house and had an awesome time, forgetting about petty differences at least for a while. Then my grandma died and we didn't get to see those relatives that often, so that was sad, but we still exchanged phone calls and letters, so that was nice.

I don't mind the commercialization that much, for the same reasons Ambi stated. My family never bought (pun intended) into the whole "get everyone you know expensive gifts to show your affection", and if I can get something nice for myself (or others if I feel generous, though they won't mind if I don't) at a bargain during black Friday, well, that's a plus.

I still think that the tradition of Christmas trees is barbaric and wasteful...says the guy who's been working selling Christmas trees for the last 5 or 6 seasons. I've actually done some research into this, and it turns out the people who care the most about preserving evergreen trees are the people who profit from those trees, so that practice actually boosts the economy and might not be really that bad towards the environment and perhaps even be good (there are some issues about monoculture, but the forests where they grow those trees are very homogeneous to begin with), so there's that. And the jingles don't actually bother me, as long as I have my iPod handy, I can tune out whatever I find unpleasant...except for stupid customers, that is, but you get to deal with those at all times of the year in all sorts of jobs, so there's not much I can do about it except not working customer service.

And I'm not gonna pay lip service to Jesus, because enough of that has been done already, and I have my issues both with the guy and his fanclub, but there is something to say about the spirit of generosity that comes with the season and that sadly doesn't spread over the rest of the year. But I'll still take that over nothing.

Slightly related rant about generosity
For the past ten years or so, I was part of a group of volunteers who collected winter clothing, food, blankets, etc. for the homeless. I live in a border town, where thousands of "illegal" immigrants from the US get deported into, often dozens or even hundreds at a time. Some of them are from South or Central America, so they have no legal resources in Mexico, and even when they do, not all of them have ways to contact their families, or they can't really help them since the reason they crossed the border was so they would be the ones sending help. So many of these people get stranded in a strange city, left to their own devices. There are shelters out there...actually, there might be the one place, and suffice to say, that is not enough, and it's at most a temporary relief.

So we did what we could to alleviate the problem of people dying on our streets (which is a year-round problem, as they die from exposure in winter, and dehydration in summer because this is a fucking desert) by going over people's houses and social media asking people to donate stuff they wouldn't need. Any other time of the year, we'd get turn down by people, or they wouldn't even open the door (so I do know a little bit what it feels like to be a Mormon/JW), but around Christmas, most people feel a moral obligation to live to so-called Christian principles and many of them would happily join our efforts. A few of them would even offer to give money, but since this was more of a grass-roots thing and we would have had to go through all the paperwork to fund an established charity, which would've been more than what a dozen people (most of them floating, really it was just me and 3 other people who did most of the work) with good intentions could handle, which was a bummer because not only did we have to turn down money donations, but also the larger corporate donations, because some companies can't be bothered to help people in need unless it is tax-deductible. But we did urge people to buy stuff they could give away instead, and some people actually did that, which was nice.

In the end we suffered from donor fatigue, as most volunteers and donations started petering out. At the same time, a local TV station started its own campaign, collaborating with the same government entity we had worked for years, and that resulted in a larger outreach and much more cooperation from the general public, so we were phased out, and even though it left a bittersweet taste, more people benefit from those efforts, so really I was in no position to complain. I'd like to think of it as the private initiative finally deciding to do something so we did not have to pick up the slack anymore, but the truth is that for all I know this would have happened anyway. I am just glad we were able to help at least a little bit for a little while.

I still see people on the street sometimes, asking me for money, wearing a jacket that once was mine, or trying to get some sleep behind a dumpster while rolled up in a blanket I might have helped providing. It's sad that they are still out in the streets, dealing with addiction and mental illnesses, but at least they are still alive, partly thanks to people who opened the door to a stranger because they felt it was the time to give or whatever. So that's one good thing about Christmas season, even if it doesn't last the rest of the year.

It sounds a bit cynical, I know. It sounds like I was exploiting compassion like a weakness, twisting religious people's arms into doing a secular deed they might not have felt compelled to to otherwise. And in a way, I was. Not to say that many people would not have helped anyway, or that they did it exclusively cause t'was the season, as we had plenty of donations coming from people who weren't particularly (or at all) religious, as well as people from other faiths and some who don't celebrate Christmas (but everyone knows what Christmas is, Shut up, Bob Geldoff). But the majority of people actually did donate "in the spirit" of the season, and a few of them went out of their way to make that much abundantly clear.

In that way, I'm not very different from the evil marketing establishment with their black Fridays and Mall Santas, or any other charity drives which go around this time of year... speaking of which, if you do feel generous, please donate to a worthy institution, not to the homophobes at the salvation army.


So I guess what I'm saying is that all the good parts about Christmas are not inherent to Christmas at all, and they are as foreign to the season as the birth of Jesus. But as long as we remain largely a (culturally if secular) Christian society, Christmas is as good a time as any to display all those qualities, and share good times with those we love.
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby Phighter » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:58 am

Am I allowed to hate Thanksgiving?

I hate that way more.
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby CultofZoidberg » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:08 am

Krampus has been the best thing about Xmas so far.
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby Matthew Notch » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:28 am

52xMax wrote:
Slightly related rant about generosity
It sounds a bit cynical, I know. It sounds like I was exploiting compassion like a weakness, twisting religious people's arms into doing a secular deed they might not have felt compelled to to otherwise. And in a way, I was. Not to say that many people would not have helped anyway, or that they did it exclusively cause t'was the season, as we had plenty of donations coming from people who weren't particularly (or at all) religious, as well as people from other faiths and some who don't celebrate Christmas (but everyone knows what Christmas is, Shut up, Bob Geldoff). But the majority of people actually did donate "in the spirit" of the season, and a few of them went out of their way to make that much abundantly clear.

In that way, I'm not very different from the evil marketing establishment with their black Fridays and Mall Santas, or any other charity drives which go around this time of year... speaking of which, if you do feel generous, please donate to a worthy institution, not to the homophobes at the salvation army.


Anytime somebody helps the homeless they get an automatic thumb from me anyway, but you made a really good point. This is why Christmas really isn't a Christian holiday anyway--a Christian is supposed to be one year round. That arm twisting isn't SUPPOSED to be for a secular deed--that's what being a Christian is supposed to mean. If these people are only willing to open their pocketbooks to help someone legitimately in need at the time of the year it's "expected" of them, what sort of Christians are they? Especially the "a few of them went out of their way to make that much abundantly clear" part... that hacks me off. You don't give hoping people will show you love. Like if I donate to a GoFundMe for someone's funeral or something, I sign the donation as "An Internet Stranger". To me it completely misses the point of giving so that other people will notice you giving. I don't even mark my donations on my taxes, though I probably ought to I guess.

I do think, though, that the work you did was very different from Black Friday commercializers. Now them, they take one thing that's admittedly good about the season, that spirit of giving, and turn it into a frenzy. Again with the Bible thumping I guess, but it reminds me of Jesus tossing out the money changers who were charging exorbitant fees right on the temple grounds--he said they were making his Father's house a house of merchandise. I mean people (and massive, faceless corporations) have to make money this time of year like any other, and it's good business sense to make it the most when people are already going to be spending. I suppose if it makes them feel more festive to profit off the compulsory generosity people feel the need to express this time of year, I can't really begrudge them that either, but the whole affair reeks a bit, to me, of giving the tenth of the dill and the mint and the cumin but disregarding the weightier aspects of the law. It's adhering to the rituals but forgetting the spirit involved.

I might just be a little grumpy, I dunno. :P
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby cmsellers » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:37 am

Phighter wrote:Am I allowed to hate Thanksgiving?

I hate that way more.

What is the absolute meanest thing I'm allowed to say to you without breaking this forum's rules?

Just ... imagine that I said that to you. *angry, hostile, bitter, vindictive, murderous, homicidal, killy-stabby glare*

Thanksgiving is the best holiday ever, and I'm eating you instead of a Turkey next year.
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby 52xMax » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:27 am

cmsellers wrote:
Phighter wrote:Am I allowed to hate Thanksgiving?

I hate that way more.

What is the absolute meanest thing I'm allowed to say to you without breaking this forum's rules?

Just ... imagine that I said that to you. *angry, hostile, bitter, vindictive, murderous, homicidal, killy-stabby glare*

Thanksgiving is the best holiday ever, and I'm eating you instead of a Turkey next year.


Don't take it personal, phighter. Sellers is just grumpy because he used to live inside a Turkey.
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby Absentia » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:45 am

It stopped being fun years ago, but I have no negative feelings about anything except shitty modern versions of Christmas songs. More importantly: I don't have to go to work, therefore Christmas is wonderful.
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby FieldMarshalFry » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:11 pm

BAH-HUMBUG!
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby DashaBlade » Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:01 pm

I don't so much hate Christmas as I hate the worst of its celebrants, as detailed in the Grinch thread.

I'm kind of in the same boat with Max. People shouldn't be shitty 11 months out of the year and then bribe their consciences for one month. People shouldn't act like grabby, entitled dickwads, especially to those who make barely more than minimum wage (as we so often see with holiday shoppers and how this season is loathed by those in various customer service jobs).

Also, the winter solstice needs more love. A 23 degree axial tilt is the real reason for the season, after all.
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby jbobsully11 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:44 pm

Meh. I mean, I like getting stuff, and if I find something I *know* someone will like, I'm happy to buy it, but I don't especially like the whole "start buying things people might be okay with and listening to the same songs 24/7 that, even if they were good at one time (they almost certainly weren't), aren't anymore" thing that keeps happening earlier every year. And some of my relatives are all right, but we see each other a lot during the year, so it's not exactly special. It's fun to see how fast the general conversation turns to something horrible against [Muslims, immigrants, gays, gay immigrant Muslims, universal healthcare, socialism, Obama, etc.], but that's every family gathering. Some of us are thinking of making bingo cards with those topics.
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby sunglasses » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:06 pm

I just want to point out that I absolutely hate the "Feed the World" song. I still hear it played. You know what Bono? No, they don't know it's Christmas Time at all because they might not be Christian, mate.
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby AboveGL » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:30 pm

Yeah, Band Aid is pretty fucking naff. I still don't find it as irritating as that Andy Williams song, though.
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby octoberpumpkin » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:08 pm

I love Christmas. I feel more in touch with my faith, people are giving and receiving, everyone I pass on the street is super friendly, I get to participate in a bunch of super fun holiday activities, everyone needs volunteers, I love the music and movies and decorations. Boyfriend gets time off to spend together

I don't like family time but other than that I love Christmas

for the record I do volunteer year round and give gifts and things, but it's always nice to see everyone else in the spirit around this time of the year
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby Anglerphobe » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:32 pm

sunglasses wrote:I just want to point out that I absolutely hate the "Feed the World" song. I still hear it played. You know what Bono? No, they don't know it's Christmas Time at all because they might not be Christian, mate.


I have no problem with the intention of the song or its meaning or any of that. It's just a shit song. In Ethiopia, I would expect people to know it's Christmas even if they themselves aren't practicing Christians. However, a feasting holiday is meaningless during a famine so these people who should know it's Christmas time couldn't tell you the difference, hence the rhetorical question.
If only it weren't so awful it would be a pretty good song.
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Re: Do you hate Christmas?

Postby DashaBlade » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:39 pm

sunglasses wrote:I just want to point out that I absolutely hate the "Feed the World" song. I still hear it played. You know what Bono? No, they don't know it's Christmas Time at all because they might not be Christian, mate.


I like how the entire continent of Africa is a blazing desert of starvation and not knowing it's Christmas, judging by the portrait painted in that song.
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