Skyrim thread

What are you playing. Hands out of your pockets!

Skyrim thread

Postby Blackfish » Sat May 25, 2013 9:44 pm

Image
So, we don't have a Skyrim thread yet.

I got this game right before the price point dropped from sixty bucks to about thirty, and a week before a Bethesda sale on Gamersgate, too. Still, I have to say, it was a worthy purchase.

My thoughts on Skyrim so far: (wall of text, vague spoilers)
Spoiler: show
First, the good. Combat is very fun and well-implemented - I love the dual-wielding system. Do you choose a shield for some protection and shield bash, another weapon for extra damage-dealing but also forgoing the ability to block, or do you opt for a spell to complement your stabbiness/survivability? It also lends a whole new dimension to spell casting as you can mix and match a lot of different styles. Smithing is also very involving, I probably spend as much time smithing as I do dungeon-crawling.

Skyrim feels like a real place, where I never felt the Imperial Province was anything but a game space. I don't know exactly how big Skyrim is in-game, but it feels much bigger than Oblivion's Imperial Province. It's chock full of beautiful vistas - probably second only to Just Cause 2 in my opinion.

The lore of the world is well-done - Skyrim manages to feel like more than just Scandinavian fantasy expy. The way the different layers of history influence the landscape and interact with one another feels very true to history, and I appreciate the mature way they dealt with the aftermath of the Oblivion Crisis. And the in-game books are amazing as always. I've spent what feels like hours just reading books on the history of Tamriel.

However, I feel the same way about a lot of Skyrim's writing that I felt about the Fallout 3 DLC The Pitt. They set up a mature and morally ambiguous situation extremely well, then completely cop out when it comes to the execution of the missions. It feels like I didn't get a 'happy ending' for a quest not because there's no inherently good solution, but because of lazy quest design.

For instance there's that whole very racially-charged situation with elves and Nords and imperials that the game painstakingly sets up, but a few offhand remarks aside your race makes zero difference in the story. You can join the explicitly anti-elf Stormcloaks as an elf and it will make literally no difference. It's revealed in a book that Ulfric massacred the population of Markath - men, women or children - that didn't actively resist Madanach, but this hugely significant event in the recent past is never brought up once by anyone in Markath or elsewhere, and you never get to call Ulfric out on this either.

Or take the Forsworn conspiracy plotline. It's a brilliant set up - we're shown and told that the Nords oppress the native Reachmen, the savagery of the Forsworn in retaliation, the stranglehold the Silver-Bloods have on Markath. And the prison quest starts promisingly. Then Madanach tells me to kill this snitch, and I think, sure, I need to get out of here so I'll play along for now and suddenly I'm caught up in an escape and I'm an ally of his. It's exactly like in the Pitt, where refusing to kidnap a baby unquestioningly means I am with the brutal slavers putting down the slave rebellion. And after that... except for a few offhand remarks by citizens, nothing changes, and there is no follow-up whatsoever.

This kind of extends to quest design in general. I understand that dungeon-crawling is a staple of the genre, and that's fine, but Skyrim really leans in this waaay too much. The quest to retrieve a lost sword? Kill a bunch of bandits in a cave. Quest to gain access to Dwemer ruins? Kill a bunch of spiders in a cave. The quest to join the Bard's College? Yep, kill a bunch of draugr in a dungeon. Even most of the daedric quests are "go kill stuff in a dungeon".

After the two Fallout games' fleshed-out followers, the followers in Skyrim are less than satisfactory. The housecarls, for example, lack even the most rudimentary backstory, and even the random people you can recruit as followers are bland thralls. I'm playing an Orc, and am currently travelling with Borgakh. I paid her dowry, and in my head there's some chemistry going on between my rootless cosmopolitan Orc and the traditional Orc shieldmaiden as we mow through beasts, bandits and undead. But the game gives my imagination nothing to work on. She gets like one character-specific quip, and that's more than most followers get. There's literally zero difference between Lydia and Jordis other than their name and appearance.

And the level-scaling problem is much, much better than in Oblivion, but it's still a problem, somewhat. The world design of Skyrim encourages you to try to do everything, but you will start to struggle in the late game if you have too many points in non-combat skills like lockpicking and speech, or if you're simply a generalist. Thankfully unlike Oblivion's game-breaking level scaling, it's not that hard to stay competitive without gaming the system.

tl;dr, amazing mechanics and lore, less than stellar quest design and non-existent follower personalities. Overall definitely an improvement over Oblivion.
  • 3

In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
User avatar
Blackfish
Dr. Jan Itor
Dr. Jan Itor
 
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:51 am
Location: no longer finding a tree to piss on
Show rep
Title: Holy Mop Master Race

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Strant » Sat May 25, 2013 10:03 pm

Honestly the mechanics are kinda weak, The combat is mostly button mashing and there is about 7 different spells with slight tweaks (higher damage, added explosion, Better stats for flame autarch etc) in every school of magic.
How the world reacts to what you have done is weird. For example i saved the world from alduin so i go to join the companions and they haven't heard of me, how weird is that? You can also become the arch mage only knowing basic ward, healing hands and the spells you start with.
another thing i didn't like was how the story was kinda forced on you. In oblivion you start off (after you get out of prison) in the middle of nowhere with no one but yourself and it fells very optional to do the main quest. While in skyrim you run away and then you have this guy that asks you to follow him and then you immediately get a sense that this need to get done and that kinda removes the freedom of not doing the main story at all.

I still love skyrim and i think it's fun but that's mainly because of the world that is so much fun to explore and find dungeons in and the lore that is so cool to read into. if i had to rate it 8/10, An amazing game.
  • 3

<Orange>A fellow called Strant (he's a Swede)
<Orange>Is a fetus who somehow can read
<Orange>He'll plant a chat bomb
<Orange>Though with charm and aplomb
<Orange>Then laugh as he watches us bleed
__

"Somewhere over the rainbow there's another rainbow"
User avatar
Strant
TCS Regular
TCS Regular
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:27 pm
Location: Error404: File not found
Show rep
Title: Asshole

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Blackfish » Sat May 25, 2013 10:42 pm

Strant wrote:Honestly the mechanics are kinda weak, The combat is mostly button mashing and there is about 7 different spells with slight tweaks (higher damage, added explosion, Better stats for flame autarch etc) in every school of magic.

Considering there are five schools of magic, that doesn't sound too bad. I've only started a mage character, but as different types of destruction magic (for example) have different effects, it seems like it'd be possible to mix and match between the destruction spells, or have a ward in one hand like a shield, or something. I'm thinking of a game which did magic-casting better, and I'm coming up blank. But then again I also don't usually play mage characters, so maybe it's just that I've missed them.

I can't agree that the combat is just button mashing either. At least, not for a sword-and-board style, where you have to correctly time when to raise your shield, when to shield bash, when to normal attack, when to power attack. The shield adds some interesting tactical options. I haven't played a dedicated dual wielder yet.

Strant wrote: another thing i didn't like was how the story was kinda forced on you. In oblivion you start off (after you get out of prison) in the middle of nowhere with no one but yourself and it fells very optional to do the main quest. While in skyrim you run away and then you have this guy that asks you to follow him and then you immediately get a sense that this need to get done and that kinda removes the freedom of not doing the main story at all.

Wait, how so? In Oblivion you're asked to deliver the Amulet of Kings to Jauffre, if I remember correctly. To me it's feels exactly the same as being asked to go warn the jarl in Whiterun - if anything it feels like a more important task, given that Alvor/Gerdur would have sent someone else to warn the jarl anyway.
  • 0

In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
User avatar
Blackfish
Dr. Jan Itor
Dr. Jan Itor
 
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:51 am
Location: no longer finding a tree to piss on
Show rep
Title: Holy Mop Master Race

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Strant » Sun May 26, 2013 1:19 am

Considering there are five schools of magic, that doesn't sound too bad. I've only started a mage character, but as different types of destruction magic (for example) have different effects, it seems like it'd be possible to mix and match between the destruction spells, or have a ward in one hand like a shield, or something. I'm thinking of a game which did magic-casting better, and I'm coming up blank. But then again I also don't usually play mage characters, so maybe it's just that I've missed them.


here i'll give you the round up of unique spells in every school except conjuration (because it's hard to tell if conjuring different creatures count as different spells) and restoration (because it's all healing and turning undead).
Spoiler: show
Alteration

1: Candlelight.
2: Oakflesh,stoneflesh,ironflesh and ebonyflesh.
3: Detect life, detect dead.
4: Telekinesis.
5: Transmute.
6: Water breathing.
7: Paralyze, mass paralyzing
7.5: Dragon hide (Almost the same as oakflesh but it raise with percentages instead of AP)
8.5:Equilibrium.

Destruction
1: Flames,frostbite,sparks.
2: Fire rune, frost rune, lightning rune.
3: Fire ball, icy spear, thunder bolt.
3.5: Chain lightning, Incinerate, Ice Storm, lightning storm. (Slightly updated versions of the former ones).
4.5: Ice cloak, fire cloak, lightning cloak.
5.5: Wall of flames, wall of frost, wall of storms.
6: Arniel's convection (Designed for one quest)
7:Blizzard.
8:Fire storm.
8.5: Vampiric drain (Can only be acquired if you become a vampire).

Illusion
1: Clairvoyance.
2: Courage,rally.
3: Call to arms.
4: Muffle.
5: Invisibility.
6: Fury,frenzy,mayhem .
7: Fear,rout,hysteria.
8: Calm,pacify,harmony
8.5: vision of the tenth eye (Quest spell)


That might seem like a lot but it's really not.

I can't agree that the combat is just button mashing either. At least, not for a sword-and-board style, where you have to correctly time when to raise your shield, when to shield bash, when to normal attack, when to power attack. The shield adds some interesting tactical options. I haven't played a dedicated dual wielder yet.


I'm mainly talking about when you reach level 40+ and can kill a blood dragon in seconds, that's when you fell like the combat is boring. hell even after level 20 you start to kinda feel it when you are able to kill one of the bandit leaders really quickly.

Wait, how so? In Oblivion you're asked to deliver the Amulet of Kings to Jauffre, if I remember correctly. To me it's feels exactly the same as being asked to go warn the jarl in Whiterun - if anything it feels like a more important task, given that Alvor/Gerdur would have sent someone else to warn the jarl anyway.


Because you are following someone when you get out, in oblivion you are just set free in the middle of nowhere and the game tells you that you can do whatever you want. and i didn't mean that the story wasn't optional at all it just felt less optional than in oblivion.
  • 0

<Orange>A fellow called Strant (he's a Swede)
<Orange>Is a fetus who somehow can read
<Orange>He'll plant a chat bomb
<Orange>Though with charm and aplomb
<Orange>Then laugh as he watches us bleed
__

"Somewhere over the rainbow there's another rainbow"
User avatar
Strant
TCS Regular
TCS Regular
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:27 pm
Location: Error404: File not found
Show rep
Title: Asshole

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Blackfish » Sun May 26, 2013 6:45 am

Strant wrote:here i'll give you the round up of unique spells in every school except conjuration (because it's hard to tell if conjuring different creatures count as different spells) and restoration (because it's all healing and turning undead).
Spoiler: show
Alteration

1: Candlelight.
2: Oakflesh,stoneflesh,ironflesh and ebonyflesh.
3: Detect life, detect dead.
4: Telekinesis.
5: Transmute.
6: Water breathing.
7: Paralyze, mass paralyzing
7.5: Dragon hide (Almost the same as oakflesh but it raise with percentages instead of AP)
8.5:Equilibrium.

Destruction
1: Flames,frostbite,sparks.
2: Fire rune, frost rune, lightning rune.
3: Fire ball, icy spear, thunder bolt.
3.5: Chain lightning, Incinerate, Ice Storm, lightning storm. (Slightly updated versions of the former ones).
4.5: Ice cloak, fire cloak, lightning cloak.
5.5: Wall of flames, wall of frost, wall of storms.
6: Arniel's convection (Designed for one quest)
7:Blizzard.
8:Fire storm.
8.5: Vampiric drain (Can only be acquired if you become a vampire).

Illusion
1: Clairvoyance.
2: Courage,rally.
3: Call to arms.
4: Muffle.
5: Invisibility.
6: Fury,frenzy,mayhem .
7: Fear,rout,hysteria.
8: Calm,pacify,harmony
8.5: vision of the tenth eye (Quest spell)


That might seem like a lot but it's really not.

I'll have to play a mage more comprehensively first, I suppose.

Why wouldn't you include restoration? As far as I can tell you can also ward up with one hand and use a destruction spell with the other (for example).

Strant wrote:I'm mainly talking about when you reach level 40+ and can kill a blood dragon in seconds, that's when you fell like the combat is boring. hell even after level 20 you start to kinda feel it when you are able to kill one of the bandit leaders really quickly.

Not trying to be contrarian here, but that hasn't been my experience at all. I have a sneaky archer at level 40+, and I can honestly say that I'm struggling against the dragons. I straight out cannot defeat an ancient dragon without drinking a whole bunch of potions. And in fact one of the complaints I have about the combat in Skyrim is the random difficulty spikes that come out of nowhere - being able to handle a whole dungeon of draugr then suddenly get one-shotted by a lowly bandit.
  • 0

In the night there is something wild
Can you hear it breathing?
User avatar
Blackfish
Dr. Jan Itor
Dr. Jan Itor
 
Posts: 752
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:51 am
Location: no longer finding a tree to piss on
Show rep
Title: Holy Mop Master Race

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Marcuse » Sun May 26, 2013 12:33 pm

So I'm a huge Skyrim fan. I bought it for PS3 initially (I know...) then rebought for PC because the DLC wasn't available. I Platinumed the PS3 version and have clocked over 70 hours in the PC version as well.

Overall Skyrim is an excellent game with a lot of strong points. My feelings on the weak points are below (in spoilers as it will be long).

Spoiler: show
1. Combat- Combat starts to feel boring at higher levels. This bites particularly when you visit an area that is lower level scale than you. My PS3 character was a dual wielding, illusionist archer and I could one-shot most enemies that weren't dragons. I left it really late to do the civil war questline and could have easily cleared the fortresses alone. I eventually turned the difficulty up to Master but I still struggled to find worthy enemies. For me the most interesting combat style is the sneaking archer as this requires a lot more skill and tact. My PC character was this, which is a really good strat for the Dawnguard DLC as well as crossbows really upscale your damage.

2. Magic- As has already been mentioned, the spell list is fairly restrictive, and among those some of the spells weren't any use to me. The destruction spells are woefully underpowered in the late game, and even mid-game if you don't stun lock enemies with dual casted spells. This then defeats the whole idea of a dual wielding system as you have to use two the same at all times to live.

Additionally the level up systems for conjuration and alteration are broken as hell. There's a room in Mzulft with a Chaurus behind a locked door, you can just go there and level both to 100 with impunity. By contrast I have never levelled destruction to 100 because it's impossible to do sufficient damage with the spells to level it.

3. Quests/world- As previously mentioned, the quests leave a lot to be desired in many cases. The upshot of most of theem is a new ability/item acquired, but the world remains exactly the same. I would have considered that after the destruction of Alduin the dragons wouldn't attack any more, but they're still there the same. You are considered the same whether you destroy or lead the Dark Brotherhood. You can become the archmage of Winterhold but still be scoffed at by every other wizard in Skyrim. The court wizards still say "you should go to the mages college, in Winterhold" even after you are supposed to be the leader of their order. There seems to be an obsession with making the quests always available no matter what you do. I would have preferred the system to have prevented you from joining more than one of the guilds rather than being able to be the preemient warrior, mage, thief and assassin in Skyrim all at once.
  • 5

User avatar
Marcuse
TCS Sithlord
TCS Sithlord
 
Posts: 6592
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:00 pm
Show rep

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Strant » Sun May 26, 2013 4:14 pm

Why wouldn't you include restoration? As far as I can tell you can also ward up with one hand and use a destruction spell with the other (for example).


The ward drains a lot of mana and it's not actually worth it in a battle that's not 1 on 1.

Not trying to be contrarian here, but that hasn't been my experience at all. I have a sneaky archer at level 40+, and I can honestly say that I'm struggling against the dragons.


Really? Try getting a deadric bow (shouldn't be too hard) enchant it and get into alchemy to get strong poisons. That's how i play my sneaky archer and it kills in one hit if i sneak except on blood dragons and higher.
  • 1

<Orange>A fellow called Strant (he's a Swede)
<Orange>Is a fetus who somehow can read
<Orange>He'll plant a chat bomb
<Orange>Though with charm and aplomb
<Orange>Then laugh as he watches us bleed
__

"Somewhere over the rainbow there's another rainbow"
User avatar
Strant
TCS Regular
TCS Regular
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:27 pm
Location: Error404: File not found
Show rep
Title: Asshole

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Marcuse » Wed May 29, 2013 3:57 pm

Strant wrote:The ward drains a lot of mana and it's not actually worth it in a battle that's not 1 on 1.


Oh god, the wards, the wards. They are the most useless ability in the entire game. They take a couple of seconds to go up after you use them, drain a ton of magicka even at high levels (with magicka upgrades and cost reduction perks) and don't work if the enemy is behind you or I believe against splash damage. They also have a limit on how much damage they can absorb, so using a cheaper ward is also pointless as the ward will break and stagger you to boot.

If I was going to make them work, I would use a system similar to Dishonored whereby the ward sections of a portion of your magicka to use the ward and you act as though you have less until the ward is dropped. This would allow wards to be used without destroying your magicka pool.
  • 1

User avatar
Marcuse
TCS Sithlord
TCS Sithlord
 
Posts: 6592
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:00 pm
Show rep

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby moosemaimer » Thu May 30, 2013 2:08 pm

If you're using heavy armor or just aren't using the perk for a full set of anything else, there's a shield that generates a ward every time you raise it.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Spellbreaker_%28Skyrim%29

Combine that with the resistance perk and you're damn near immune to Destruction.
  • 0

Freelance hobo
User avatar
moosemaimer
Commenter
Commenter
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:10 pm
Show rep

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Marcuse » Thu May 30, 2013 8:55 pm

I knew that thing existed but I was more talking about the way you could play as a pure mage. I found that wards were effectively a waste of time as they either took up a hand you needed for dual casting, or drained your magicka so fast you weren't able to attack at all.

If you're tanking in full plate with a shield then you probably don't even need the destruction immunity because the spells get so underpowered and are used by so few high level enemies that it defeats the point of needing the ward.
  • 0

User avatar
Marcuse
TCS Sithlord
TCS Sithlord
 
Posts: 6592
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:00 pm
Show rep

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Overlord Moo » Thu May 30, 2013 10:21 pm

I just snuck through the game as my Khajiit assassin. I swear, once you get the Dark Brotherhood shoes (or the "Sneaky Boots of Slit-throats" as I like to call them), stealth becomes a better option than just about anything!
  • 3

6:54 Bert: Moo is so cool he wishes he could be someone else just so he could better understand what it is like to live in a world with Overlord Moo in it
9:46:06 PM GG If Moo goes oh my I know it means bad
<Strant> wig+wonderbra+Strant=Deeno
User avatar
Overlord Moo
TCS Sithlord
TCS Sithlord
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:17 pm
Location: Greener Pastures
Show rep
Title: Stolen Thunder

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Learned Nand » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:03 am

Skyrim was the perfect game for me. I primarily value immersion in a game and, as an engine programmer, I get a raging nerd-on for good looking terrain, and Skyrim has good looking terrain in abundance. It is by far the most beautiful game world I have ever seen. It was paced relatively slowly, which I like, and wasn't a reflex test, which I hate. It wasn't PvP: I'm awfuul at that. And it had a decent story I could follow, though it would have benefit from much better writing.
  • 5

Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
User avatar
Learned Nand
Back-End Admin
Back-End Admin
 
Posts: 9858
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:18 pm
Location: Permanently in the wrong
Show rep
Title: Auditor of Reality

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Ivan Vodkov » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:25 pm

aviel wrote:Skyrim was the perfect game for me. I primarily value immersion in a game and, as an engine programmer, I get a raging nerd-on for good looking terrain, and Skyrim has good looking terrain in abundance. It is by far the most beautiful game world I have ever seen. It was paced relatively slowly, which I like, and wasn't a reflex test, which I hate. It wasn't PvP: I'm awfuul at that. And it had a decent story I could follow, though it would have benefit from much better writing.


It's weird you'd immediately follow up "Skyrim was the perfect game for me" with "I primarily value immersion". Sometimes I think the Elder Scrolls series do everything in their power to kill immersion. Random NPCs telling you things they have no way of knowing ("Oh, an enchanter, I see!" or "Nice to see that you use both hands to wield a weapon" while I have a fucking dagger equipped), two brothers having completely different accents, Ulfric having the same conversation with some dude every time I go to his hall, the world having absolutely no reaction to your actions... And there's something very off about the way the game shoves its quests in your face all the time.
  • 0

Vodkov isn't my real last name, but I fucking wish it was.
User avatar
Ivan Vodkov
Commenter
Commenter
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:11 pm
Location: St Petersburg
Show rep

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Learned Nand » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:32 pm

Yahtzee had a lot of complaints about the immersion breaking of Oblivion, but said they'd mostly been dealt with in Skyrim. And the terrain engine helps me a good deal in that regard.
  • 1

Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
User avatar
Learned Nand
Back-End Admin
Back-End Admin
 
Posts: 9858
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:18 pm
Location: Permanently in the wrong
Show rep
Title: Auditor of Reality

Re: Skyrim thread

Postby Overlord Moo » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:48 pm

Yeah. I mean, one time I was starring at the ground, looking for a rabbit I killed, and saw ants. ANTS! What other game would even think to put ants in the game, let alone actually do it.
  • 3

6:54 Bert: Moo is so cool he wishes he could be someone else just so he could better understand what it is like to live in a world with Overlord Moo in it
9:46:06 PM GG If Moo goes oh my I know it means bad
<Strant> wig+wonderbra+Strant=Deeno
User avatar
Overlord Moo
TCS Sithlord
TCS Sithlord
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:17 pm
Location: Greener Pastures
Show rep
Title: Stolen Thunder

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

cron