MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

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MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby skrotkanon » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:38 pm

I am slowly and occasionally playing through MGS5 and I mostly like it. Mechanics-wise it's by far the best MGS. The setting is also great and it's a really nice touch that the NPC's are actually speaking their own language.

In any case, Metal Gear Solid is now a open-world RPG, or Grand Theft Auto set in 80's Afghanistan. You recruit soldiers to your own base that you expand and you can have the soldiers scout the areas you are working in, research new and better gear (that part is HUGE!) or send them out on their own missions.

The controls are a lot like MGS4 but the endless cutscenes of that game has been switched out for a lot of radio-talk. This is probably my biggest gripe with the game. Yeah, MGS4 has too much cutscenes but there's barely any left now. The franchise has been heavily story-driven since the first Metal Gear Solid and it's just sort of gone. I mean, there is story but you usually have to play for hours to see five minutes of plot. Again, the game is a blast to play but I often find myself not knowing what I fight for except for improving my army and my gear. What pisses me off the most is that when they focus on the story it's really good and I wish there was more of it. Now I just play a few hours here and there to not burn out on the endless stealthing. AGAIN, the stealthing is really good but it's all you do and without a real plot to drive you forward I tire after a while.

But on to the most important thing, you can have a buddy tag along on your missions and one of them is a wolf with an eyepatch!

Image

His name is DD and he is a good boy, the best in fact! DD marks your enemies and has perfect stealth so he's never a nuisance. It's also a blast for some reason to have a big, happy dog tag along you on missions with international importance. I can't help caring about the big lug, if any soldier ever acts aggressively towards him or even tries hurting DD I will stab that son of a bitch in the fucking heart!

DD can do more things like confusing enemies and you can even equip him with a big stun-gun so he can take out enemies by himself. But the most important thing is that you can have a big, happy doggie with an eyepatch!
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby AboveGL » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:42 pm

Must play.

Must play.

Must play.
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby KleinerKiller » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:51 pm

I'm almost at the end-

Spoiler: show
As in, beyond the main story and tackling the post-credits content


- And so far, this has a high chance of being my Game Of The Year. There's very little I don't adore about it.

I do echo the complaint about the thinly spread story content, though. That, and the knowledge that the ultimate final mission giving resolution to a particular character arc was just cut from the game despite being by all accounts in perfectly working condition, because Konami sucks a fuck like that, makes it a bit difficult to stay motivated.
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby BROWNRECLUSE » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:01 pm

I finished the first arc of the game the other day. Got distracted by the Battlefront beta for the last few days.

Gameplay-wise, this is perhaps the most comfortable Metal Gear game I've played. Very short learning curve on the controls this time around, and the iDroid interface is pretty nice to scroll through missions, request ammo/resupply drops, and command Buddies in the field.

Graphics - this game is utterly gorgeous. While it is a pity you're limited to only 2 or 3 areas in the game, they look fantastic. I still give Witcher 3 the nod for better looking game, but MGS 5 is beautiful to look at.

Features are nice - having customized buddies and equipment is a nice touch (I opted to give D-Dog a glass eye so he looked more normal). D-Walker is a fun little mech that you can roam around on and punish enemies with (or stun the shit out of them so you can extract them).

Some players may find the Mother Base substructure tedious, as you are required to build the base up and retrieve resources out in the field to keep it going. I didn't mind it so much, with the exception of the morale system - I hated having to come back every other mission to speak to my troops on the base (not because I didn't think it was important, but because it saps so much time out from the game).

Quiet - some people will be turned off by the character because of the whole feminism debate in videogames now and the presence of a character that wears as little as possible is demeaning. If you can get by that, she's a great sniper, and a real help in the field when you need cover.

Overall, I really enjoyed this game, but as others have mentioned, it is a real cop-out on Konami's part to leave some very good content out from the game (the aforementioned story arcs for characters). And since this is probably the last big AAA title Konami is going to be making that I want to play, I suppose it's a fitting end.

And I felt so damn guilty when D-Dog got in front of me when I was firing at an enemy and I accidentally hit him.
When you see the words "Bond with D-Dog Decreased", you'll feel like shit too.
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby skrotkanon » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:27 pm

Oh yeah, I accidentily ran him over with a truck, that message stung. :(

I've tooled around a bit with Quiet but she almost feels cheap with her being able to shoot anything you point at. Of course, using a sniper is the same thing but I think that's a bit cheap as well, Snake is old-school manly goddamnit! A tranq gun and some chutzpah is all you need!

I love the droid for subquesting. Faster than the horse and you can have a bigger tranq gun and a grenade launcher on it!

Also, I very rarely care about morale. Yeah, I always have a couple of guys in the brig but a couple of guys out of 400 is irrelevant...
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby KleinerKiller » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:40 pm

BROWNRECLUSE wrote:Quiet - some people will be turned off by the character because of the whole feminism debate in videogames now and the presence of a character that wears as little as possible is demeaning.


At the risk of turning this thread into an argument about the controversy...

I would heartily disagree with those who believe she's a sexist or demeaning character. She is sexualized and scantily clad, but there are acceptable reasons for it that play into the roots of the story, as Kojima originally promised when everyone was in a tizzy over her design reveal. She also lacks significant jiggle physics, one second in the buddy selection screen aside -- and it's not like her chest is unreasonably huge to begin with, compared to many others in games.

Outside of her appearance, she's arguably the most competent and driven character in the story, and there are few moments when she isn't in complete control of the situation. Even when she's "captive" in Mother Base, she can slip out with comical ease and do whatever she wants. She has independent agency in the story, her own motivations, a badass skill set, and a personality fleshed out even despite her inability to speak. I'm of the mindset that these traits are far more important to defining whether or not a character is demeaning than how much skin they show.

And I'm a lot more attached to her on the battlefield than I am to the beloved D-Dog. She's certainly proven more useful to me. Though I was unaware until this thread that you can get a stun gun for D-Dog, so... that.
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby BROWNRECLUSE » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:31 pm

KleinerKiller wrote:
BROWNRECLUSE wrote:Quiet - some people will be turned off by the character because of the whole feminism debate in videogames now and the presence of a character that wears as little as possible is demeaning.



At the risk of turning this thread into an argument about the controversy...

I would heartily disagree with those who believe she's a sexist or demeaning character. She is sexualized and scantily clad, but there are acceptable reasons for it that play into the roots of the story, as Kojima originally promised when everyone was in a tizzy over her design reveal. She also lacks significant jiggle physics, one second in the buddy selection screen aside -- and it's not like her chest is unreasonably huge to begin with, compared to many others in games.

Outside of her appearance, she's arguably the most competent and driven character in the story, and there are few moments when she isn't in complete control of the situation. Even when she's "captive" in Mother Base, she can slip out with comical ease and do whatever she wants. She has independent agency in the story, her own motivations, a badass skill set, and a personality fleshed out even despite her inability to speak. I'm of the mindset that these traits are far more important to defining whether or not a character is demeaning than how much skin they show.


I absolutely agree and I think that the majority of the outrage was from people who just saw other very limited footage or screenshots of the character, and didn't see the progression of the character as you get further into the missions and the storyline.

And I'm a lot more attached to her on the battlefield than I am to the beloved D-Dog. She's certainly proven more useful to me. Though I was unaware until this thread that you can get a stun gun for D-Dog, so... that.


I used Quiet quite a bit in the game for the sniper support, but D Dog is great because he can scout out pretty much every enemy and prisoner and other resource in an enemy camp from a very safe distance away, so it's easier to plan your approach. I have heard about a battle dress for D Dog that allows him to automatically stun and Fulton extract soldiers, but I'm not sure if it's legit or not
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby gisambards » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:37 pm

I'll be honest - while I'm sure the character is fine, Quiet's lack of clothes really is the kind of thing that shouldn't be happening anymore. It's blatant and totally unnecessary sexualisation of what is supposed to be a tough female character, and the "reason" the game offers is, frankly, bullshit. I am absolutely certain they'd already decided she was going to be practically nude before coming up with that bit of backstory to justify it. I'm not disparaging what is otherwise meant to be a very good game, or even that Quiet isn't otherwise a good character, but I don't agree that Kojima or whoever else was behind that shouldn't be called out on what is pretty obviously sexist.
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby Marcuse » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:38 pm

gisambards wrote:I'll be honest - while I'm sure the character is fine, Quiet's lack of clothes really is the kind of thing that shouldn't be happening anymore. It's blatant and totally unnecessary sexualisation of what is supposed to be a tough female character, and the "reason" the game offers is, frankly, bullshit. I am absolutely certain they'd already decided she was going to be practically nude before coming up with that bit of backstory to justify it. I'm not disparaging what is otherwise meant to be a very good game, or even that Quiet isn't otherwise a good character, but I don't agree that Kojima or whoever else was behind shouldn't be called out on what is pretty obviously sexist.


But...but...

Spoiler: show
SHE BREATHES THROUGH HER SKIN!!!!!!!!!!


I am, of course, joking. I've seen more than enough of the furore over Quiet to convince me that in this case, we're looking at a case of a specifically oversexualised character justified by a bullshit plot reason. The thing that really did it for me was The End: he's dressed from head to toe in green fatigues, and nobody said boo to that when we were told he photosynthesised. So why does Quiet need to be effectively naked? She could just wear loose clothing, or something functional that wasn't a bikini. It doesn't even make sense as a plot reason, and as such it just feels like pointless exploitation.

Stupid thing is, Metal Gear has some awesome female characters who were never sexualised unnecessarily (like the Boss), so I kind of think there's no excuse for them to write shit like this any more.
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby Cobra-D » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:15 pm

Im actually literally playing this game right now and have been since it came out. Thiugh not as much as i would like so im still in the beginningish of it. Also i just died the stupidest way so far, im scouting out in the powerplant on top of a building trying to capture a guy and while on the edge i accidentally hit square causing me to dive off the building. Dammit snake.
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby BROWNRECLUSE » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:31 pm

I cleared out a regular outpost in Africa, extracted 4 soldiers who were worth a damn, and gathered up the tranquilized bodies of the four scrubs that were remaining into a pile. I piled them up a few feet from a mortar launcher, aimed and fired, and accidentally hit triangle instead of square, and got caught back on the mortar. Ended up blowing myself up with those guys.
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby CarrieVS » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:43 pm

Hoist upon your own petard, eh?
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby BROWNRECLUSE » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:47 pm

CarrieVS wrote:Hoist upon your own petard, eh?


In that moment, I was petarded

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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby KleinerKiller » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:27 am

I am disappointed.

Marcuse wrote:
gisambards wrote:I'll be honest - while I'm sure the character is fine, Quiet's lack of clothes really is the kind of thing that shouldn't be happening anymore. It's blatant and totally unnecessary sexualisation of what is supposed to be a tough female character, and the "reason" the game offers is, frankly, bullshit. I am absolutely certain they'd already decided she was going to be practically nude before coming up with that bit of backstory to justify it. I'm not disparaging what is otherwise meant to be a very good game, or even that Quiet isn't otherwise a good character, but I don't agree that Kojima or whoever else was behind shouldn't be called out on what is pretty obviously sexist.


But...but...

Spoiler: show
SHE BREATHES THROUGH HER SKIN!!!!!!!!!!


I am, of course, joking. I've seen more than enough of the furore over Quiet to convince me that in this case, we're looking at a case of a specifically oversexualised character justified by a bullshit plot reason. The thing that really did it for me was The End: he's dressed from head to toe in green fatigues, and nobody said boo to that when we were told he photosynthesised. So why does Quiet need to be effectively naked? She could just wear loose clothing, or something functional that wasn't a bikini. It doesn't even make sense as a plot reason, and as such it just feels like pointless exploitation.


Her breathing through her skin is nowhere near the whole story. If you're assessing solely by the furor and that plot element that's "revealed" immediately after enlisting her, yeah, it's obviously going to look sexist, but it's disingenuous to go only off of that information. I'm guessing by the wording used here that neither of you two have actually played the story to completion. Thus, my spoiler probably isn't going to make a whole damn lot of sense due to the keywords, but oh well.

Spoiler: show
The parasites that warp and empower the Skulls Parasite Unit have also covered her up, embedded mainly in her skin as they are in the Skull sniper units (originally because she was horribly burnt in the prologue while still a faithful XOF soldier). The parasites partially transformed her by the will of Skull Face, but thanks to him, she isn't meant to serve as an effective sniper as The End was in the first place. She's solely intended as a conduit for the English strain of the parasite infection. Skull Face set up the whole situation so that Snake would be tricked by her more human and feminine appearance (he has a habit of falling for that -- see EVA and the Philosopher's Legacy at the end of MGS3) and spare her after fighting her, bringing her aboard Mother Base, where she would start speaking English when interrogated and thus infect Snake and the rest of the crew with the hitherto-unseen infection, clearing out XOF's problems in one fell swoop. In essence, a more advanced variation on the "bomb in Paz's uterus" gambit the same guy set up nine years before, except far more destructive.

This is why she doesn't speak until Code Talker tries communicating in Navajo when they're alone -- she developed the same loyalty to Snake that the other Diamond Dogs did, and refused to risk completing Skull Face's plot even after the man himself died.


Considering this is almost the center of the story and feeds into the biggest plot twists so far, I firmly doubt that she was created just for fanservice. This is Hideo Kojima we're talking about, anyway. He loves fucking with people's perceptions.
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Re: MGS5: Dog-enhanced Espionage Action

Postby Marcuse » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:48 am

KleinerKiller wrote:I am disappointed.

Marcuse wrote:
gisambards wrote:I'll be honest - while I'm sure the character is fine, Quiet's lack of clothes really is the kind of thing that shouldn't be happening anymore. It's blatant and totally unnecessary sexualisation of what is supposed to be a tough female character, and the "reason" the game offers is, frankly, bullshit. I am absolutely certain they'd already decided she was going to be practically nude before coming up with that bit of backstory to justify it. I'm not disparaging what is otherwise meant to be a very good game, or even that Quiet isn't otherwise a good character, but I don't agree that Kojima or whoever else was behind shouldn't be called out on what is pretty obviously sexist.


But...but...

Spoiler: show
SHE BREATHES THROUGH HER SKIN!!!!!!!!!!


I am, of course, joking. I've seen more than enough of the furore over Quiet to convince me that in this case, we're looking at a case of a specifically oversexualised character justified by a bullshit plot reason. The thing that really did it for me was The End: he's dressed from head to toe in green fatigues, and nobody said boo to that when we were told he photosynthesised. So why does Quiet need to be effectively naked? She could just wear loose clothing, or something functional that wasn't a bikini. It doesn't even make sense as a plot reason, and as such it just feels like pointless exploitation.


Her breathing through her skin is nowhere near the whole story. If you're assessing solely by the furor and that plot element that's "revealed" immediately after enlisting her, yeah, it's obviously going to look sexist, but it's disingenuous to go only off of that information. I'm guessing by the wording used here that neither of you two have actually played the story to completion. Thus, my spoiler probably isn't going to make a whole damn lot of sense due to the keywords, but oh well.

Spoiler: show
The parasites that warp and empower the Skulls Parasite Unit have also covered her up, embedded mainly in her skin as they are in the Skull sniper units (originally because she was horribly burnt in the prologue while still a faithful XOF soldier). The parasites partially transformed her by the will of Skull Face, but thanks to him, she isn't meant to serve as an effective sniper as The End was in the first place. She's solely intended as a conduit for the English strain of the parasite infection. Skull Face set up the whole situation so that Snake would be tricked by her more human and feminine appearance (he has a habit of falling for that -- see EVA and the Philosopher's Legacy at the end of MGS3) and spare her after fighting her, bringing her aboard Mother Base, where she would start speaking English when interrogated and thus infect Snake and the rest of the crew with the hitherto-unseen infection, clearing out XOF's problems in one fell swoop. In essence, a more advanced variation on the "bomb in Paz's uterus" gambit the same guy set up nine years before, except far more destructive.

This is why she doesn't speak until Code Talker tries communicating in Navajo when they're alone -- she developed the same loyalty to Snake that the other Diamond Dogs did, and refused to risk completing Skull Face's plot even after the man himself died.


Considering this is almost the center of the story and feeds into the biggest plot twists so far, I firmly doubt that she was created just for fanservice. This is Hideo Kojima we're talking about, anyway. He loves fucking with people's perceptions.


Shrug. I've heard all that before, and none of that really makes much sense either. All of that stuff is a great reason for Quiet to be quiet, but not really a great reason for her to be basically naked all the time.

One of the reasons Eva worked was because we kind of knew she was being manipulative when she was revealing so it made sense for her character.

Perfectly frankly, I'm disappointed that they felt it necessary to include this in the game because it's awkward at best for me to enjoy a game that includes a character like that when I have...you know...a wife in the house who'll want to see what I'm doing. I find it embarrassing and annoying that in order to enjoy a game apparently as great as MGSV, I need to deal with this kind of in-your-face fanservice alongside it. It harms my enjoyment of the game especially when, as you say, it's the center of the storyline so it's not like I can reasonably avoid it.
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