Paradox games

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Paradox games

Postby Blackfish » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:41 am

So, anyone else here play Paradox games?

In recent months I've been playing mostly Crusader Kings II, but this week I started playing Europa Universalis III again. I wanted to get in at least one more game before EU4 comes out, as I suspect EU4 is one of those sequels that makes its predecessors completely obsolete.

I got Victoria II and the A House Divided expansion recently, but I just cannot get into it. The mechanics seem completely oblique to me.

Here's my current EU3 game - the Kingdom of Germany at the conclusion of the Wars of German Unification in the early seventeeth-century.
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I had played Brandenburg-Prussia a few times before, but I always ended up dominating the HRE and just passing all the reforms and eventually tag-switching to the HRE, so this is my first time actually forming Germany. It was pretty slow going as I had to eat a lot of Unlawful Territory to get the cores needed to form Germany, but it was kind of fun to play a slow game. I finally fulfilled all the conditions in 1616, and the past twenty years have been almost non-stop war against all the rest of the German states. I would declare war on one or the other German minor and everyone else would just pile on me, but I rationalized it as all the other German states forming a league to oppose me. With full quality, free subjects, a tech advantage and the Prussian military reforms though, I crushed them pretty easily. This is what I love about EU3, by the way. By proper preparation and foresight even the most mediocre player can become an unstoppable juggernaut.
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Re: Paradox games

Postby idontlivehere1122 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:45 am

Yay for Paradox. Can't say I'm any good at their games, but I enjoy creating zany history all the same. Of alltheir games, I've put the most time into CK2 and HoI2. I've always wanted to give HoI3 a try, but it looks a little too complex for me. That and I heard its actually kind of boring if you aren't playing USA/Germany/Soviets ?
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Re: Paradox games

Postby Blackfish » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:30 pm

The remarkable thing about Crusader Kings II, at least, is that it's still possible to have fun while completely sucking at it. I didn't have a grasp on how the sieges worked in CK2 until almost the very end of my first game (I was constantly confused that my siege status was going from a high number to 0%), and in my second game I was stuck as count of Sussex for pretty much the entire game, but you grow really attached to your dynasty even (or especially) in unsuccessful games.

Although Hearts of Iron 1 was the first Paradox game I ever played, I can't say I've ever really gotten into the HoI games. The scope for changing history seems quite limited unless you play one of the majors, and of the HoI3 observer games I've played it always seems to end the same way - the Soviets roll all over Europe. Plus the whole historical censorship thing really puts me off, even if I understand the necessity on Paradox's part.
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Re: Paradox games

Postby idontlivehere1122 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:10 pm

Blackfish wrote:The remarkable thing about Crusader Kings II, at least, is that it's still possible to have fun while completely sucking at it. I didn't have a grasp on how the sieges worked in CK2 until almost the very end of my first game (I was constantly confused that my siege status was going from a high number to 0%), and in my second game I was stuck as count of Sussex for pretty much the entire game, but you grow really attached to your dynasty even (or especially) in unsuccessful games.

Although Hearts of Iron 1 was the first Paradox game I ever played, I can't say I've ever really gotten into the HoI games. The scope for changing history seems quite limited unless you play one of the majors, and of the HoI3 observer games I've played it always seems to end the same way - the Soviets roll all over Europe. Plus the whole historical censorship thing really puts me off, even if I understand the necessity on Paradox's part.


Great thing about CK2 is that losing is often times more fun than winning. Its always fun to fail miserably at your attempts to get a decent heir and end up with a slow,inbred lunatic minor on the throne and a regent that just happens to have a high intrigue score.

As for HoI3. I have to give paradox some credit. At least its the soviets rolling all over europe this time. All the games I observed in HoI2, it was Germany ruling Europe.
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Re: Paradox games

Postby Ivan Vodkov » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:05 pm

Played some of their earlier ones (something to do with Rome and the Senate, can't exactly recall the names), those were okay. Victoria II was pretty good, nice way too kill an evening or twelve. Europa Universalis III felt too simplistic: I mean, the economy is literally one slider. Hearts of Iron III was way more assburger than what I was willing to put up with, and incredibly poorly optimized even by Paradox standards, to boot. Thinking about playing some CKII sometime, but for the moment I'm too busy learning not to suck in Movie Battles II (spoiler: I probably won't succeed).
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Re: Paradox games

Postby Blackfish » Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:58 pm

Ivan Vodkov wrote:Europa Universalis III felt too simplistic: I mean, the economy is literally one slider.

But.... it's not. That slider (I'm assuming you mean the mercantilist/free-trade slider) only governs your attitude towards trade. How much you decide to mint, where you trade, whether you focus on domestic production and taxation or external trade, whether you take loans, also affect the economy.
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Re: Paradox games

Postby Cpt._Funkotron » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:29 pm

My favorite game by paradox, and really ever, is Mount and Blade: Warband. Its an open ended medieval sandbox rpg set in the fictional land of Calradia. You create a character, decide what they look like and pick different backround options that determine skill bonuses and starting equipment. Once that's done you can either take part in an optional tutorial mission or tell the quest giver to go Funk himself.

Once in the open world you can do what you want. You can be a token adventurer running around completing quests, a merchant buying goods in one town and selling them in another for profit, a bandit preying on peasant farmers and trade caravans, a hedge knight going from kingdom to kingdom competing in tournaments or a mercenary fighting for the highest bidder.

Now the game is called warband so its kind of self explanatory you will want some soldiers. You can either reccruit seasoned mercenaries from taverns, or recruit raw peasants from villages, and gradually with experience see them become elite warriors. There are also companions you can find who are their own characters with unique backstories who you level up with the player. There are six skill trees for recruits for the six kingdoms you can recruit them from:

-Rhodok: Best defensive infantry, they use large board shields and polearms mostly, and okay crossbowmen but no cavalry.
-Swadian: Best Heavy cavalry mostly using lances to charge at the enemy, mediocre archers and foot soldiers.
-Nordic: Best Offensive infantry very proficient at taking castles, okay archers, no cavalry.
-Vaegir: Best archers very proficient at defending castles, okay cavalry and infantry.
-Kerghit: Best light cavalry, primarily horse archers and are highly mobile, nonexistent foot soldiers and ground archers.
-Saranid: Okay at everything, Best at nothing.

heres a map of calradia:

http://mountandblade.wikia.com/wiki/Cal ... rldMap.png

When your party gets into a fight on the main map screen, you go to a real time battlefield, like in total war, except you personally lead the charge and actually fight the enemy soldiers instead of clicking on unit cards. It has an innovative swordplay system that is easy to learn and hard to master, there are five attack directions and five block directions such as up down left right thrust controlled by mouse movements. You deal extra damage depending on your momentum, so you deal far more damage hitting someone from a moving horse than on the ground. there is also a jousting mechanic where if you are riding fast enough with a lance equipped you can couch your lance to deal astronomical damage to whatever you hit with it. There have been a few games who have ripped off mount and blades combat system (I'm looking at you chivalry: medieval warfare) but warband did it first and does it best.

Now you don't have to be an adventurer forever, With enough renown and honor you can become a vassal to a king. As a vassal you swear fealty to the king and are granted a fief, which can either be a town a village, or a castle. In return You have to fight for the king whenever he calls on you. If However you don't like the sound of serving in heaven, you can try your hand at reigning in hell by starting your own Kingdom. As King you always have to have one personal fief but any others you conquer you can give to your companions to make them vassals.

There really is no winning in the game, Its up to the player to decide what their victory scenario is be it conquer the world, amass a gigantic fortune, or just to be famous. When you feel that your character has fulfilled their destiny, you can have them ride into the sunset and you get an assessment of your playing based on how much gold you retired with how many battles you won or lost and your difficulty setting etc. and you can start a new.


Now I think this ran a little longer than I intended, but I felt any less would have been a disservice. Honestly, If you are into the middle ages and don't care about somewhat dated graphics (Its sort of in between morrowind and oblivion) and like paradox, I think you'll love this game as much as I do.

P.S This is not a paid ad I'm just a fan. However, if someone at paradox sees this and would like to make a donation to the Cpt._Funkotron retirement fund, that would be appreciated. Spreading the power of Funkiness isn't cheap you know.
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Re: Paradox games

Postby Blackfish » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:27 pm

Warband is just published by Paradox, it's developed by Taleworlds. That said, I also love the shit out of Warband.

Cpt._Funkotron wrote:-Rhodok: Best defensive infantry, they use large board shields and polearms mostly, and okay crossbowmen but no cavalry.
-Swadian: Best Heavy cavalry mostly using lances to charge at the enemy, mediocre archers and foot soldiers.

Rhodok crossbowmen are deadly, especially if you're lazy like me - because crossbowmen have a lower rate of 'fire', you don't need to babysit them like you do with archers. A bunch of Rhodok sharpshooters on a hill will just shred anything that comes at it, and hack down anything that gets through the steel rain. The Rhodok infantry are good but almost redundant, since the sharpshooters also kick so much ass in melee.

The advantage with the Swadian infantry and crossbowmen is that, if I remember correctly, at the highest level they gain the 'mounted' tag, meaning they move as though mounted on the campaign map. Pretty good if you want some combined arms but don't want to sacrifice speed on the campaign map.

The Nord archers are actually not bad too. Not as good as the Vaegir ones, but they pack more of a punch in melee and are cheaper per man.

For style though, I'm very fond of the Vaegirs, myself. I love the look of their armor, and their archers are pretty good, too. I also have an inordinate fondness for the great bardiche. It just looks like such a wicked weapon, and because of the ideal range and lack of a stab animation is practically idiot-proof, whether on a horse or on foot. Just swing away. I like the two-handed weapons generally. One-handed ones just seem not as satisfying compared to two-handers.

Cpt._Funkotron wrote:or tell the quest giver to go Funk himself.

Oh you. :}
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Re: Paradox games

Postby Cpt._Funkotron » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:39 pm

I wish more games had that feature.
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Re: Paradox games

Postby A Modern Man » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:03 am

Oh man I love warband , I especially liked playing it with mods.
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Re: Paradox games

Postby Blackfish » Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:52 pm

So, Crusader Kings 2, you guys. It and most of its DLCs are 50% off on Steam this week, and the base game is 75% off today. If you're into historically flavoured kinslaying and toddler killing, or just generally like to act like a Game of Thrones villain, I cannot recommend this game enough.

More seriously, this game is pretty great in putting you in the mindset of a medieval noble. I constantly find myself encouraging zealotry and pride in my children, being a shameless nepotist, trying to murder ten year olds so that a more tractable cousin could rule, and packing my kinsmen off to probably unhappy marriages with foreigners or retards just to increase my prestige or gain a political ally.
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Re: Paradox games

Postby idontlivehere1122 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:33 pm

I really like the latest Pagan expansion. Opened up a lot of new challenges to play. Norse are the most obvious (and boring, no challenge relatively speaking), but there are a lot of others to play. Right now, I'm currently steam rolling Eastern Europe with my Cuman hordes. Not doing so well against the Muslim horde-stacks though. My friend recommended a West African game as THE ultimate challenge. Someone else suggested start off as a custom hellenic ruler (note - religious difference can cause opinion and event backlashes that can fuck you up, NO ONE STARTS OFF WITH HELLENIC RELIGION BY DEFAULT). Yeah no thanks to that, I'm still learning the game as it is. :)

EDIT: On a side note, I'm really pumped for EUIV. I know a lot of the more experienced paradox gamers consider EUIII something akin to 'baby's first grand strategy', but dammit I love EUIII all the same.

EDIT2: EU:Rome is another game I've been messing around with. Often considered the blacksheep of the paradox line up, I think there is some good stuff in there especially with mods and the expansion. The senate mechanics are definitely something interesting that really needs to be brought back in some way or form. The game is unfortunately something of a one-trick-pony in that outside of the senate mechanics it works as a form of proto-crusader kings (not CK2, I mean the original crusader kings) with all the lack of depth and polish that that would imply. The good thing is that the one trick (Play as Rome - or cheat and create some other republic) is a damn good one.
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Re: Paradox games

Postby Blackfish » Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:40 pm

Yeah, same here. I've preordered EU4, and it's the first time I've preordered any game. I'm not too fond of the nation-specific idea chains, and I'm sad to see sliders go as I love the idea that every time you tug your nation in a particular direction there's a trade-off, and that there is (in theory at least) no 'best' slider position to work towards. But everything else looks amazing. I'm glad to see the random elements go, and I like the idea that a more vigorous ruler is able to do more during his reign. It looks like, in theory at least, that nations will go through periods of boom and bust as they cycle through rulers of differing ability, instead of the snowballing that tends to happen in EU3.

I have EU: Rome, but I've never been tempted to try it. I do hope they take another shot at it, now that they have Crusader Kings 2 under their belt. It's a fascinating period that I don't think any other game has done much justice to.

I'm currently in a very engaging Byzantine game with the Project Balance and VIET mods. I'm really feeling the Byzantine flavor, as I'm constantly thinking in terms of how to balance my vassals against one another, and at any given time I'm actually much more worried about being stabbed in the back by a faction than about any external enemy. I finally have a solid grasp on the empire for the forseeable future, as I am a genius and have a genius heir, but two huge blobs have formed on my doorstep - the Ilkhanate spanning all of Persia and the Russian steppes (after eating the Golden Horde) and Arabian Hashimid Sultanate in Arabia, Iraq, the Levant and Egypt. Both are worryingly stable, and the Ilkhanate still has some of its attrition-free doomstack that I can only dodge whenever we go to war.

Haven't gotten the Old Gods DLC yet. Will probably nab it on sale in a few months.
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Re: Paradox games

Postby Lindvaettr » Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:53 am

I bought this game a while ago, but I hadn't really taken any time to play it until yesterday. I started up a game, chose a count of Ireland (I don't remember which one, but it was Dublin in 1066, I think) because the internet told me he was the best choice to start. So! I started and... I don't know what to do next. I tried just sitting there, since my old man was like 71 and I was heir to his land, so I'd get some more, but a revolt started and I lost Dublin within two years.

So... any tips from you guys who play this? What should I do when I start? I'm not new to strategy as far as Total War, etc., goes, but Grand Strategy like Crusader Kings isn't something I've done before, and I'm a bit lost, and don't really have the time or desire right now to start over time after time trying to figure out how to begin my inevitable reign of baby-murdering terror.

Thanks in advance, home-wedges.
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Re: Paradox games

Postby Blackfish » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:46 am

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There is a map mode called 'de jure duchies', where you can see that Dublin is one of the two counties in the Duchy of Tara. You need to own at least 51% of a duchy to create or usurp the duke title, so in this case it means you need Kildare as well. Same with the Duchy of Leinster - you need both Leinster and Ossory. Being a duke has a number of advantages, like your children having better marriage prospects, and more prestige, but the most important one is you get to vassalize counts. As duke of Tara, for example, if for some reason Kildare falls out of your control, you can declare a war to get the count of Kildare back under your thumb, as it is technically ('de jure') within your borders.

There are a number of ways to obtain new land - as a Catholic in an island full of Catholics, you can marry into it - if you marry a daughter, for example then your dynastic children by that woman will have a weak claim on the county someday. A more scumbaggy (i.e. proper CK2) way to play it would be to marry that daughter then murder everyone else between her and the throne, ensuring that your children will inherit not just a claim but the title itself.

This cuts both ways, of course, so when you marry your daughter to some other ruler's son, be careful, as they might come a-knocking with an army someday. So why marry your daughters at all? Alliances. Marrying your children to other rulers means you can call them to war (though they have to like you more than your enemy). In a region of small realms like Ireland, the assistance of an ally might just turn the tide. So it's a tradeoff of short-term security over long-term.

(As an aside, since this goes both ways, beware of certain alliances - Norway in particular will call you into its inevitable wars with England, so I would recommend against wedding any Norwegian princes or princesses for the early game, as you don't want the king of England, the big boy of the British Isles, pissed at you.)

Of course, in 1066 none of your neighbours have any daughters, which leads me to the other way to expand your realm - fabricating claims. In the council tab you can tell your chancellor to do so. Whether he succeeds or not is largely a matter of chance, but if he does you get a claim on that land that cannot be inherited by your heir, with which you can declare a war to take it for youself.

As for more general advice, don't build any improvements yet - in the early game as a small count money is hard to come by, so you want to be saving it up for hiring mercenaries. At this level mercenaries are absolutely decisive in your wars - hire them, then use them to storm the castles of your enemy (you don't pay upkeep for dead mercs). Just keep an eye out for their upkeep at all times, as mercs can turn on you if you don't have enough money to pay them.

Also, you want to keep your vassals happy, especially before you embark on any expansion, because they will support plots to overthrow/kill you and withhold troops if they don't like you.

It may sound counter-intuitive in a dynastic game, but do not land close relatives unless it's your heir*. Close relatives are the ones with orange teardrops beside their portraits, and the reason you don't want to give them land is that they tend to have claims on your land and are typically in the line of inheritance, meaning (a) they will try to murder you if they don't like you and (b) people who don't like you will plot to put them on your throne.

* I don't even like to land my heir - landed nobles tend to pick up a lot of really bad traits because AI, and besides I like to educate my grandson as well

When choosing courtiers for promotion, stay away from those with the 'ambitious' and 'envious' trait, conversely, go for those with the 'content' trait. A content vassal has a huge relationship bonus towards his liege, and a lot of plotting options are not available to him. Don't automatically go for the more talented or 'deserving' man, as a talented man you can't control is just a dagger at your throat. Sometimes a tractable mediocrity is what you need.

Always, always keep your spymaster happy. Spymasters can also plot against you, and they lend insane plot strength to any plot they join. As for the other council positions, treat them like political appointments - council positions give a relationship bonus to the holder, so hand them out to important people who need buttering up.

Oh, also! If England or Scotland does start expanding in Ireland before you can declare yourself king, there's no shame in bending the knee - often you can do more as a powerful vassal in a weak kingdom, than as an independent ruler.


Finally, I think it helps to play CK2 as a roleplaying game rather than a grand strategy game - enjoy the little things, like the birth of your child, or falling in love, seeing your grandchild blossom into a real stand-up guy/gal, or cackling as some rival family is extinguished. The objective of the game isn't to expand your empire by any means necessary, but rather the propagation of your dynasty - having a large but unstable realm won't mean squat if some asshole vassal then schemes that realm from under you.

I'd be happy to help with any more specific queries about the game - either here or on Steam. I realize this all seems kind of intimidating, now that I've typed it out, but honestly, CK2 is a game where you don't have to be on top of all the mechanics to enjoy. Just go with the flow. Another advice I often hear people give to newbies is to watch a bunch of YouTube videos. My opinion..... eh, don't do that. Paradox games are not that exciting to watch. Read some gameplay AARs instead. The authors tend to be good players, and you can glean a few good tips while being entertained by the narrative.

I'm currently reading this awesome Game of Thrones one, "And Now My Watch is Ended". It's a narrative AAR, but it's well worth reading if you're caught up on the books.
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