Spec Ops: The Line

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Spec Ops: The Line

Postby malosaires » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:22 am

This game didn't do too well, but I found it damn interesting.

For those unfamiliar, it's a modern military game about the horrors of war that actually pulls off its message and stays engaging. For those who have played it,
Spoiler: show
Do you feel like a hero yet?


Anyone who played this look at shooters differently afterwards? Anyone start thinking about the use of death in games more? Anyone think it sucked?
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby Ivan Vodkov » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:20 pm

BIG FAT EDIT: IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED IT BUT PLAN TO, DON'T READ ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING ABOUT IT. IT IS IMPERATIVE.

Request permission to freely use spoilers in this thread? Everyone has played it by now, probably, the hype was ridiculous. This time I'm using a spoiler tag, but I really don't think it's necessary in this particular thread.

Anyway, it is probably the single most overrated game of 2012.
Spoiler: show
I know you're supposed to be taken by surprise by all that "spunkgargleweewee? oooh no, it's actually Heart of Darkness!" stuff, but let's be honest: who was? Certainly no one I know except the reviewers, and they gave it away freely. Other than that, it has some good ideas, but the implementation is mediocre at best. The narrative is unbearably pretentious, the white phosphorus twist was obvious from a mile away, and the gameplay was fucking terrible; yes, I know it was supposed to be terrible, but if you drink a bottle of piss ironically to make a statement about the consumerist culture, your breath still doesn't smell very well. I wouldn't call it a successful experiment, but that's what experiments are for: to see whether they succeed or not.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby Blackfish » Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:48 pm

I haven't played it. :[ Waiting for the price to drop on Steam, actually.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby idontlivehere1122 » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:07 pm

I'm probably gonna come off as a raving lunatic, but here goes. I think that nowdays theres a bit too much focus on 'emotional engagement' and 'games as art' that actual fun GAMEplay is being lost in the mix. I've by no means suggesting that every game should just be the HD equivalent of 'doomguy beats the forces of hell', but I think people shouldn't forget to make something fun to play to go with all the deep and engrossing writing and stories.

On the topic of Spec Ops, I like the idea beind the game but ultimately it did nothing for me. Doesn't matter how good the ideas were, It just felt like a run of the mill shooter albeit one that tried to be something more than 'generic russian invasion #___'
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby Learned Nand » Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:58 pm

MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD

I wasn't particularly surprised by the twist in mood. It was still a good game. I didn't see the PTSD hallucination thing coming, I didn't see the "Riggs wants to destroy the water" thing coming, etc. Honestly, I didn't even mind the gameplay, because though it probably was outdated, I don't really play FPS', so it's not like I was able to think "oh, this gameplay again." And the soundtrack was excellent.
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby malosaires » Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:23 am

Ivan Vodkov wrote:
Everyone has played it by now, probably, the hype was ridiculous.


There was a lot of praise from reviewers and the games media, but this game really didn't sell very well.

Anyways, big budget games have certainly gotten more "SERIOUS" in the last few years, but I don't think games like Spec Ops are the issue. If a game is trying to tell a dramatic story, I don't begrudge it for going for engagement in action over fun. Hell, that's what horror games are all about.

The issue as I see it is in games going serious for the sake of being serious, and seeming "mature." To often acting serious, grey and gritty is used essentially as an excuse not to tell a more engaging story, implying players should care simply because shit has gotten real, without providing the background to understand how previously the shit was only abstract.

While overly serious games aren't good, the real problem is just homogeneity in the market. I think we could do well to have a broader range of tone in the game market, allowing for more games to explore deeper and hopefully more engaging drama, and have more stuff that is allowed to be silly. We could afford to have more open silliness.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby Learned Nand » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:22 am

Yeah, Spec Ops was certainly gritty, but that didn't mean it embraced Nihilism and dismissed humour as juvenile. There were a few genuinely funny bits. I particularly liked when the radioman asked "What could have caused all this violence? Was it video games? I bet it was video games."
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby Blackfish » Fri May 10, 2013 9:27 am

Bought this on sale from Steam recently. I've wanted to play this since Extra Credits gave it a tongue bath a while back. Started playing tonight, and just got to the
Spoiler: show
white phosporus carpet-bombing segment.

Fuck. I know it's a computer game, but I feel pretty bad. Especially since I let CIA man die to save two civilians right before that. The set up was brilliant.


The impression I was given from Extra Credits was that it takes a while to get going, and that the first couple of hours is essentially set up for some rug-pulling. Actually, once you get past the box art, it's a fairly intriguing game from the start. Setting it in what I'm assuming is near-future Dubai is fresh to me, and from the outset you're killing your fellow American soldiers. Of course, the caveat is that I haven't played many modern CoD-style shooters. I think the last one I played was Modern Warfare 2. Don't know if this setting is already a cliche to veteran players of recent AAA shooters.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby Learned Nand » Fri May 10, 2013 2:25 pm

For the record, and I'm not sure this was explained in the game, but white phosphorous is generally used as a smoke screen, not on enemy soldiers or civilians. It's an effective smoke screen because it immediately burns into a thick white smoke. In fact, it's legal to use it under international law, but it can be dangerous. There was a controversy when the US used white phosphorous in Iraq (which is what this game is referencing) and when Israel used white phosphorous as a smoke screen in Operation Cast Lead, it injured dozens of people, so Israel is now placing stricter guidelines on its use.
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby TheWomprat » Fri May 10, 2013 2:58 pm

I've heard it called the most pretentious game of its year and that's probably true. The determining factor between liking or disliking this game is probably whether you think the emotional payoff is worth the mediocre, average gameplay. I think it is. It's supposed to be a generic shooter. That's how it was marketed, that's how it starts to play out. The contrast between the first scene and it's déjà-vu moment is incredible. I've never played a game that actively berates you for playing it, but it's a weird feeling when it does.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby Blackfish » Fri May 10, 2013 3:13 pm

I guess I have a weakness for works of fiction that berate the viewer/player for enjoying it. I loved Michael Haeneke's Funny Games as well.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby Learned Nand » Fri May 10, 2013 6:38 pm

Eh, it's pretentious if it's bad. Spec Ops: The Line, isn't bad. It's rather well written. I mean, for fuck's sake, Yahtzee liked it. That's a hard standard to meet.
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby Blackfish » Fri May 10, 2013 6:46 pm

So, I'm at chapter 11, the part where Walker has to reunite with his squad... and all goes swimmingly until the heavies appear, and then my squad dies. Nothing seems to kill them before they kill my squad. I've replayed this segment like three times, and I've tried using a sniper rifle, shooting explosive crates and using the turret. Is there a special way to kill heavies (or something specific I'm supposed to do there) that I'm not aware of? I have encountered heavies before this and they didn't seem so tough. It's pretty frustrating because that particular problem comes after an extended firefight, and the game uses a checkpoint save system.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby Learned Nand » Fri May 10, 2013 6:58 pm

Take cover, find a powerful gun, and keep shooting at the head.
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Terry Pratchett wrote:The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.

Click for a Limerick
OrangeEyebrows wrote:There once was a guy, Aviel,
whose arguments no one could quell.
He tested with Turing,
his circuits fried during,
and now we'll have peace for a spell.
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Re: Spec Ops: The Line

Postby Blackfish » Sat May 11, 2013 4:36 pm

That's really general advice, aviel. I'm not dying myself, it's Lugo and Adams.

Argh! I can't get past that damn firefight. By now I can usually kill the heavies, but I can't get past the part I have to blow the door. Part of it is that I run out of ammo, and have to resort to the turret at that point. The turret sucks. It's a fun firefight, but it loses its charm the thirteenth time around. This is definitely a difficulty spike that came out of nowhere. :[
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