Westworld

What have you been watching?

Re: Westworld

Postby KleinerKiller » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:31 am

Masonator wrote:
Spoiler: show
I had considered Bernard as a robot too, but I just can't square away the fact that his intentions with the robots seem to be the polar opposite of Dr. Ford's intentions. Like you said though, that might be a result of Arnold's tinkering.


Alternatively,
Spoiler: show
I mentioned the possibility of Ford testing his hosts. To clarify, I have a niggling feeling that he might be programming Bernard to privately chat with Dolores in order to test the hosts' ability to collude and develop intelligence, such that he would be able to shut it down before it gets out of hand (or think he'll be able to; the hosts are eventually going to fully rebel, right?). He doesn't believe the hosts are people, true, but he's clearly very observant and very paranoid -- especially if he has any clue whatsoever that Arnold's influence might be lingering around. Perhaps he built Bernard as a way to stealthily root out hosts "infected" by Arnold's... virus or ghost or whatever it turns out to be, but who aren't going insane like the milk-drinking psycho or the Stray. He'd be testing whether hosts could actually develop true human intelligence while using the data to find a permanent, universal "fix."

If this theory starts holding more water than a couple of odd lines, I fully expect Ford to eventually try to pull the rug out from under both of them, which could either lead to Bernard sacrificing himself to let Dolores gain true sentience or Dolores / Bernard killing Ford (making Anthony Hopkins to this show as Sean Bean was to Game of Thrones) and going into hiding together. But at that point, it's just me spitballing.
  • 2

"Your mind is software. Program it. Your body is a shell. Change it. Death is a disease. Cure it." - Eclipse Phase

NEW REVIEW! Judgment / Judge Eyes (2019)
User avatar
KleinerKiller
Time Waster
Time Waster
 
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:34 pm
Location: Newfoungengzealaustrermany
Show rep
Title: Cute

Re: Westworld

Postby reallifegirl » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:20 pm

Regarding last night's episode:

Spoiler: show
HBO! COME TO US FOR BOOBS, BUTTS, AND AS MANY DOOR-RELATED PLOT TWISTS AS YOU CAN IMAGINE!

Image

Image
  • 3

"I can believe things that are true and things that aren't true and I can believe things where nobody knows if they're true or not."

Encyclopedia Dramatica wrote:Reallifegirl: Is supposedly a girl in real life, but we all know that's false. Gets highest comment roughly 75% of the time, and has never had a single red-thumbed comment. Ever.
User avatar
reallifegirl
Time Waster
Time Waster
 
Posts: 1609
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:21 pm
Show rep
Title: Officially allegedly female

Re: Westworld

Postby FaceTheCitizen » Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:10 am

...
  • 3

User avatar
FaceTheCitizen
TCS Moderator
TCS Moderator
 
Posts: 4553
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:12 pm
Show rep
Title: Thot Patrol

Re: Westworld

Postby KleinerKiller » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:33 am

Spoiler: show
I was too distracted by the fact that I called it being Bernard to soak in the full weight of the scene.

I guarantee Ford isn't going to survive the season. Refer to my prediction about Hopkins being Sean Bean on Game of Thrones, the most famous celebrity among the cast who plays a major role and then gets offed -- and now he's one of the Big Bads to boot. What happens to Bernard if he dies remains to be seen.

I'm even more sure of the fact that William is the Man In Black after this episode. It'd be more of a shock at this point if it turned out we weren't seeing two different time periods.

Any bets on who killed / kidnapped Elsie last time?
  • 3

"Your mind is software. Program it. Your body is a shell. Change it. Death is a disease. Cure it." - Eclipse Phase

NEW REVIEW! Judgment / Judge Eyes (2019)
User avatar
KleinerKiller
Time Waster
Time Waster
 
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:34 pm
Location: Newfoungengzealaustrermany
Show rep
Title: Cute

Re: Westworld

Postby FaceTheCitizen » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:33 am

...
  • 4

User avatar
FaceTheCitizen
TCS Moderator
TCS Moderator
 
Posts: 4553
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:12 pm
Show rep
Title: Thot Patrol

Re: Westworld

Postby Masonator » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:06 pm

FaceTheCitizen wrote:
Spoiler: show
You know, the theory of William being the Man in Black in the past is interesting, but I had trouble believing it...until Lawrence. The Lawrence that William and Dolores meet seems to act, speak, and dresss differently than the Lawrence the Man in Black meets. And he doesn't mention his wife and child, nor do they reappear.

Not to mention his accent sounds a little different, too, when William and Dolores stay with him.

And the Man in Black did say Lawrence and he met before...


Spoiler: show
I am now fully on board with the theory that William is the Man in Black. His revelation that this place isn't just to unleash your most base self, but reveals who you truly are, sounds very much like the Man in Black. Then he rhetorically asks Dolores "How can I go back after this?" So, he probably doesn't go back, not in the sense that he never again leaves Westworld, but that he now considers Westworld to be his 'real life.' I'd like to think that if I hadn't heard the theory as of yet, by the end of this episode I would have finally come up with it myself. I'm still not sure where that story line is going though. I want the theory to be true, because so far William's story line has seemed a bit pointless compared to everything else. Now he's riding off into the sunset with Dolores and leaving Lawrence with the metric fuckton of explosives, and I keep asking myself, where the hell is this headed? I'm trying to be patient, but I want some payoff.

Now a few lingering questions following the Bernard reveal. First off, the lady whose name I forget that came up with the idea to frame Dr. Ford by having the prostitute become violent, is she a host? She comes up with the plan by calling it a 'blood sacrifice,' which is the exact same phrase Dr. Ford uses before ordering Bernard to kill Theresa. So either she was part of the set up, or Dr. Ford was simply spying on them and heard her use the phrase. I know a deactivated host was in the room when that conversation took place, so it's possible that every host, deactivated or not, always conducts surveillance for Dr. Ford's personal use. Or maybe he just bugged her room and I'm grossly overthinking it.

Next question, is Dr. Ford behind Bernard's private conversations with Dolores? I think we can assume so, though it's hardly a closed question. We already know Bernard was deleting all records of his conversations with Dolores, and I initially thought that he was hiding his tracks from Ford, considering there appeared to be a philosophical difference between Ford and Bernard regarding the underlying 'humanity' of the hosts. However, now that we see the underground lair where Ford is creating his own hosts, it appears that he has three special hosts revealed thus far: himself as a boy, Bernard, and Dolores (according to the schematics). So I think it's safe to say that everything happening between Bernard and Dolores was planned by Dr. Ford. Next we have a mystery host that is being constructed during that final scene, which I assume will be Theresa in order to hide her death.

Final question that I just don't fully understand yet. What's the deal with Maeve? The engineers rebuilding her are continuing to support her agenda, rather than reporting the issue and sending out a clean up crew to take her out of commission permanently. I just don't get it. I could sort of understand the asian engineer playing along, because he seems to think of her as a person, but the other guy? Is it really because he's making some money on the side selling some free time with the hosts, and doesn't want her to rat on him? That's a pretty flimsy reason to help her escape from Westworld, considering the risks involved in that plan. Plus, couldn't he just scramble her brains and concoct some cover up story after the fact? He can change every physical and mental attribute of hers, so he could easily make it so that she posed no threat to him. Maybe I'm missing something.
  • 2

Masonator
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:22 pm
Show rep

Re: Westworld

Postby KleinerKiller » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:42 pm

Masonator wrote:
Spoiler: show
Final question that I just don't fully understand yet. What's the deal with Maeve? The engineers rebuilding her are continuing to support her agenda, rather than reporting the issue and sending out a clean up crew to take her out of commission permanently. I just don't get it. I could sort of understand the asian engineer playing along, because he seems to think of her as a person, but the other guy? Is it really because he's making some money on the side selling some free time with the hosts, and doesn't want her to rat on him? That's a pretty flimsy reason to help her escape from Westworld, considering the risks involved in that plan. Plus, couldn't he just scramble her brains and concoct some cover up story after the fact? He can change every physical and mental attribute of hers, so he could easily make it so that she posed no threat to him. Maybe I'm missing something.


Spoiler: show
Asian Engineer is doing it because he thinks it's the right thing to do, and Non-Asian Engineer is irrationally worried that he'll lose his job if his superiors find out one of the Hosts he's been working on has achieved some kind of sentience -- and I'm reading some subtleties as indicating that he might be a bit curious about that as well (honestly, who wouldn't be?). I'm assuming he doesn't just try scrambling her brains because he's worried she's so far along that it won't fully take, and she'll end up getting worse and either ratting on him or coming for his life.

There are some logical leaps there, sure, but honestly, between the storyline and Thandie Newton's performance, the Maeve stuff is so amazing in execution that I'm not having any trouble stretching my disbelief.
  • 3

"Your mind is software. Program it. Your body is a shell. Change it. Death is a disease. Cure it." - Eclipse Phase

NEW REVIEW! Judgment / Judge Eyes (2019)
User avatar
KleinerKiller
Time Waster
Time Waster
 
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:34 pm
Location: Newfoungengzealaustrermany
Show rep
Title: Cute

Re: Westworld

Postby reallifegirl » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:50 pm

Spoiler: show
I think that Ford is going to replace Theresa with a host. They showed a non-regulated host being built in the lab area where she was killed -- the money's on that host being a double of her that he uses to do away with the board's interference into his plans.

Plus it also would explain Bernard's focus on her tiny mannerisms, like how she furrowed her brow in the pilot.
  • 4

"I can believe things that are true and things that aren't true and I can believe things where nobody knows if they're true or not."

Encyclopedia Dramatica wrote:Reallifegirl: Is supposedly a girl in real life, but we all know that's false. Gets highest comment roughly 75% of the time, and has never had a single red-thumbed comment. Ever.
User avatar
reallifegirl
Time Waster
Time Waster
 
Posts: 1609
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:21 pm
Show rep
Title: Officially allegedly female

Re: Westworld

Postby Masonator » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:53 pm

KleinerKiller wrote:
Spoiler: show
Asian Engineer is doing it because he thinks it's the right thing to do, and Non-Asian Engineer is irrationally worried that he'll lose his job if his superiors find out one of the Hosts he's been working on has achieved some kind of sentience -- and I'm reading some subtleties as indicating that he might be a bit curious about that as well (honestly, who wouldn't be?). I'm assuming he doesn't just try scrambling her brains because he's worried she's so far along that it won't fully take, and she'll end up getting worse and either ratting on him or coming for his life.

There are some logical leaps there, sure, but honestly, between the storyline and Thandie Newton's performance, the Maeve stuff is so amazing in execution that I'm not having any trouble stretching my disbelief.


Spoiler: show
Thandie Newton has been absolutely incredible. Showing her monologuing in previous episodes to the guests, then her aggressiveness gets amped up and she gives the same monologue, but with far more anger in her voice, showed me that she can freaking act. This episode, she has these little touches that are so subtle you could blink and miss it. That look on her face when she chastises the prostitute for yawning, like it was just dawning on her that she inadvertently followed a script, conveyed a whole lot without saying anything. If she was turning in an inferior performance, I think I'd have more of an issue with the logical leaps involved in her story line.


reallifegirl wrote:
Spoiler: show
I think that Ford is going to replace Theresa with a host. They showed a non-regulated host being built in the lab area where she was killed -- the money's on that host being a double of her that he uses to do away with the board's interference into his plans.

Plus it also would explain Bernard's focus on her tiny mannerisms, like how she furrowed her brow in the pilot.


Spoiler: show
I always love to see someone reach the same guess as me when I didn't cheat by reading fan theories online and realizing that everyone already guessed it five episodes earlier. Good point about Bernard focusing on her mannerisms. I really like that actress and hope she gets to play a host version of her human character, with Ford pulling her strings.
  • 4

Masonator
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:22 pm
Show rep

Re: Westworld

Postby FaceTheCitizen » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:56 am

...
  • 2

User avatar
FaceTheCitizen
TCS Moderator
TCS Moderator
 
Posts: 4553
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:12 pm
Show rep
Title: Thot Patrol

Re: Westworld

Postby DjiboutiDan » Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:54 pm

I'm late to this party because I haven't been around lately. This show has got me hooked - so here's a few of my thoughts so far:
Comments on theories
I've been purposefully avoiding fan theories, but I did read one before last week's episode that was just too good. The theory is that Ford created Bernard in Arnold's likeness and the scenes of Bernard talking to Dolores are all in a past timeline and are actually Arnold talking with her. This was somebody's theory even before the previous episode revealed Bernard was a host (which was cool, but not all that surprising).
I'm very disappointed in myself for not thinking of the 'William is MIB' thing. It seems so obvious in retrospect.

General confusion
I don't get why Ford killed Theresa. The implication was that Ford knows everything that the board is doing and doesn't care because he knows they can't "stop" him. So why did he lure Theresa to his basement/dungeon/abattoir thing and have her killed? And what was up with that scene a few episodes ago of Bernard talking on the phone with Zoe from Firefly? Why did Ford (presumably) make that happen? If he had just said "Bernard, your kid died and your wife left you" that would have been the end of it. There was no need to invent a fake wife and a fake phone call between them.
Sidetrack: what the hell is up with Charlotte (the person the board sent)? Her character makes no sense at all. She's like a caricature of a caricature. I hope they do away with her.

The acting and writing
I've never been a big fan of Thandie Newton although I know many people are, and I didn't like her portrayal of Maeve in the first several episodes. I was, however, VERY impressed with Evan Rachel Wood - she was really nailing the whole 'seems human but just something's a little off' aspect of the hosts. The way I describe it is that Dolores seems like a robot finding out she's a robot, while Maeve seems like a human finding out she's a robot. Why I prefer the former to the latter I can't really explain. In the last two episodes though, Newton has been really, really good while the character of Dolores is going downhill.
I like the Elsie character but the writing for her is terrible. We get it, this is HBO and you're edgy so you can say "fuck". Stop using it so gratuitously in every sentence. That is not how people talk.

Looking forward to what happens tonight!
  • 3

Carrie wrote:But I suspect Dan will figure it out, because Dan’s apparently magic.
User avatar
DjiboutiDan
TCS Regular
TCS Regular
 
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:20 pm
Location: DC area
Show rep
Title: Bilge Rat

Re: Westworld

Postby Masonator » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:26 pm

Okay, so we are nearing the end with only two more episodes to go.

Spoiler: show
I've got to say, this most recent episode was far from my favorite. If I have one criticism of the show, it is that there is a bit too much setup and not enough payoff. Take the William and Dolores story line this episode for example. They go to a town, Dolores has some memories of hosts being beta tested at this particular town, turns out the town isn't really there and she's having a flashback. William comforts her, then they get captured by Logan and his new posse. The end. Why did this take a full episode? I understand this was just one story line out of several, but come on. Ignoring the fact that it makes no sense Logan could have possibly caught up to them so quickly (he was captured, they were traveling by train), what was accomplished out of their story line? It's just a redundant hint that this abandoned church carries some significance, another redundant hint that Dolores' programming is influenced by Arnold, and then Logan holds them hostage. I've always been the most critical of William's story line, and this episode kind of demonstrated why.

As for MiB in this episode, we finally have some backstory, always welcome with him but I wanted more of his role in Westworld rather than his history with his wife and daughter. Oh well, at least his backstory also gave us some insight into Maeve's history as well. The different timeline theory (William is the MiB) seemed to get more support, with the MiB spotting the same host who welcomed William to Westworld and commenting that he was surprised she hadn't been retired. However, this episode also introduced a flaw in that theory, since MiB tells Teddy he discovered the maze after killing Maeve and her daughter, when we know that William discovered the maze through Dolores. So for the theory to hold up, MiB is either an unreliable narrator, or William just doesn't quite recognize the true significance of the maze until much later. I also don't know why the MiB seems so sure that solving the maze will free the hosts. He obviously saw that the hosts have the potential to override the three laws of robotics, since Maeve sliced his neck after he killed her daughter. How that leads to the conclusion that solving the maze frees the hosts remains a mystery to me.

Oh, and let's now add Teddy and Bernard to the list of hosts experiencing memory recall. Teddy remembers the MiB dragging Dolores to the shed, and Bernard remembers killing Elsie (though his memory of this and of Theresa is wiped immediately after). Ford may have made his first misstep there though. Lesser known Hemsworth (head of security) offers his condolences to Bernard over the death of Theresa, and Bernard denies any romantic involvement with her. So now, Bernard looks suspicious as hell to the one character who has the tools to quietly investigate him, and who shows a very healthy fear of the hosts. Not so great for Ford.

Other than that, I hate to venture into "Character x is really a robot" territory again, but I feel compelled once more. The Asian engineer, come on. He altered Maeve's core code, didn't tell his partner and apparently had some side agreement with Maeve that she wouldn't kill him when she decided to take him out of commission. He also seemed in no rush to save that guy's life after Maeve cut his throat open. These are not the actions of a normal person in his situation. Maeve already demonstrated an ability to control other hosts, so is this guy being controlled by her? And did she potentially expose herself in her final scene this episode, by not responding to shut down orders in the saloon and then influencing the outcome of several gun fights?

Finally, it looks like I've already been proven wrong about Ford creating a host version of Theresa in his secret lab. Oh well, maybe the host he was creating is Elsie, since we know he's hiding her death.
  • 4

Masonator
Frequent Poster
Frequent Poster
 
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:22 pm
Show rep

Re: Westworld

Postby KleinerKiller » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:20 am

Spoiler: show
Oh, goodie, Sizemore is teaming up with Tessa Thompson's corporate saboteur chick. Now the two anchor-weight cartoons whom I can't stand in that half of the narrative are working together. Yaaaaaay.

I'm also disappointed Ford just let Theresa's death be discovered as an "accident," because the idea of him replacing her with a host was so tantalizing from a storytelling potential perspective. You can wring dozens of ideas out of the crazy old guy slowly killing and replacing those who try to double-cross or undermine him. The "accidental death wasn't really accidental" trope can only lead to the relevant parties confirming the suspicion that she was murdered. It's pretty much a narrative dead end. Maybe if the mid-assembly host is really Elsie, we can wring something good out of it, but Theresa had more sway and relevance.

Other than that, the continued sort-of-wheel-spinning doesn't bother me much. Dolores and William's storyline is sagging and dragging as per usual (JUST CONFIRM THAT WE'RE WATCHING TWO TIMELINES ALREADY), but otherwise, we're slowly moving into a good position for the future.

Maeve is Robot Kilgrave now, and unlike when that happened with Fish on Gotham, I actually really, really love it. Hopefully it continues to be used in fun ways.

It was good to hear more about MIB's past and motivations, and the fact that he was married for 30 years (the same time frame he's been coming to the park) firmly solidifies the theory as if the past dozen clues hadn't. And I didn't catch that the scraggly-haired woman was the sexy Brit who welcomed him in way back when, so good catch, Masonator. Although I've just had a thought about it: the fact that the marriage successfully held up for so long probably indicates that Logan manages to get out of the park alive, however tragic that may be, because I don't imagine a potential bride being very pleased or accepting of the idea that her brother just went missing or accidentally died on a trip with her fiance.

Masonator wrote:However, this episode also introduced a flaw in that theory, since MiB tells Teddy he discovered the maze after killing Maeve and her daughter, when we know that William discovered the maze through Dolores. So for the theory to hold up, MiB is either an unreliable narrator, or William just doesn't quite recognize the true significance of the maze until much later. I also don't know why the MiB seems so sure that solving the maze will free the hosts. He obviously saw that the hosts have the potential to override the three laws of robotics, since Maeve sliced his neck after he killed her daughter. How that leads to the conclusion that solving the maze frees the hosts remains a mystery to me.


My thinking is that William was always interested in the maze as a concept / game from seeing the clues pop up during his time with Dolores, but it wasn't until he saw it again all those years later after gutting Maeve that he got ideas about its significance and became obsessed with it. The guy did just lose his wife and voluntarily murdered a woman and child, after all; he'd be willing to latch onto anything for meaning, whether it's actually important or really just a storyline screwing with him. Same goes for his "freeing the hosts" idea -- just him desperately giving weight and meaning to something that probably won't have any, to mask his real goal of finding something in the park that can kill him so he can die in the place he feels like his true self in.

Masonator wrote:Other than that, I hate to venture into "Character x is really a robot" territory again, but I feel compelled once more. The Asian engineer, come on. He altered Maeve's core code, didn't tell his partner and apparently had some side agreement with Maeve that she wouldn't kill him when she decided to take him out of commission. He also seemed in no rush to save that guy's life after Maeve cut his throat open. These are not the actions of a normal person in his situation. Maeve already demonstrated an ability to control other hosts, so is this guy being controlled by her? And did she potentially expose herself in her final scene this episode, by not responding to shut down orders in the saloon and then influencing the outcome of several gun fights?


I'm not convinced. Bernard being a host made internal sense, because he's in an influential enough position that he'd be useful and interesting to Ford. I can't see a random disposal fucker being one unless it was by sheer accident and nobody knows. Asian Engineer still just strikes me as someone who is obsessing over the idea of new life being created from machinery, irrationally moral about helping her and the other hosts (her "army") be free, and blinded by his attraction to her; all to the point that he's finding himself doing increasingly amoral things in the name of pleasing her. He was in no rush to help Non-Asian Engineer, but he didn't seem exactly pleased to watch him bleed out, either; the scene gave me strong "Walter White watching the chick choke on vomit" vibes, in that I believe he was distantly weighing his options on whether saving the jerkass who wanted to interfere with Maeve's plan or letting him die would be more beneficial.


Since we're so close, I'm predicting the season will end like this:

Spoiler: show
- Dolores and William (after escaping from or subduing Logan) will come short of finding what they're looking for, and in the process William will be driven to do something that permanently scars him and sets him on the path to blackhat mode. Dolores will be recaptured and reinserted back into her proper storyline, but the events will be revealed as the seed that sets her off in the present day (in which I believe the last time we saw her was when she smashed the fly).

- MIB and Teddy kill Wyatt and locate either the entrance to the maze (the optimum path) or another strong lead (putting it in potential LOST territory), and MIB reveals that his name is William. An elderly Logan may or may not reenter the park, setting the stage for a Rusty Old Man Fight.

- Maeve's rebellion will fail to get off the ground overall (we can't blow our loads on an all-out robot uprising just yet), but she'll manage to escape the park nonetheless and enter the outside world. Asian Engineer will help her and follow her, probably killing Non-Asian Engineer to ensure they make it out and solidifying his place by her side.

- Tessa Thompson and Sizemore's plan will backfire catastrophically, probably when Maeve controls Dolores' Dad on his way out and uses him as a distraction or weapon to aid in her escape. Sizemore will get fired, whine a lot about it, and then kill himself in his writing room as one last "fuck you."

- Arnold will somehow influence Bernard to kill Ford, and Tessa Thompson will take the opportunity to seize her goals despite her second plan failing.

- A last minute mind-screw twist will confirm that Arnold is still alive in some capacity other than being a data ghost, and he'll be played by Jeffrey Wright to confirm that Bernard is based off him and it was really him talking to Dolores in the past.
  • 4

"Your mind is software. Program it. Your body is a shell. Change it. Death is a disease. Cure it." - Eclipse Phase

NEW REVIEW! Judgment / Judge Eyes (2019)
User avatar
KleinerKiller
Time Waster
Time Waster
 
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:34 pm
Location: Newfoungengzealaustrermany
Show rep
Title: Cute

Re: Westworld

Postby DjiboutiDan » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:08 am

I'm terrible with faces. Not full-blown face blindless - I just have a lot of trouble remembering faces, especially ones I don't see often. So parts of this show have been a bit of a struggle for me.
Spoiler: show
There are a lot of "slowly turn around for dramatic reveal" moments that leave me asking "is that someone we met earlier or is this just a new important character? Like when MIB gets thrown in the cell with Hector. Had we met Hector before? And then in this last episode when MIB and Teddy meet the host who welcomed William. I knew I was supposed to recognize her, but had no clue who she was.
So with that said - was that really Elsie that Bernard was killing in that quick flash? I couldn't make out who it was, but suspected it was Elsie, which honestly doesn't make much sense. How did Bernard get from Theresa's apartment to that theater in the middle of nowhere so fast? Or is the implication that Ford was the one who kidnapped her and later he had Bernard kill her?

Spoiler: show
KleinerKiller wrote:Other than that, the continued sort-of-wheel-spinning doesn't bother me much. Dolores and William's storyline is sagging and dragging as per usual (JUST CONFIRM THAT WE'RE WATCHING TWO TIMELINES ALREADY), but otherwise, we're slowly moving into a good position for the future.

Their story line just frustrates me at this point. They've passed that line between setting up drama and suspense and gone into the territory of annoying teases that aren't going anywhere. When Dolores had the memory of something in the ground next to the church, and started walking toward it, and then William pops in with "I need to take you away from this place", I was ready to punch the TV.
KleinerKiller wrote:- A last minute mind-screw twist will confirm that Arnold is still alive in some capacity other than being a data ghost, and he'll be played by Jeffrey Wright to confirm that Bernard is based off him and it was really him talking to Dolores in the past.

I agree that that is a strong possibility and I'm actually hoping for it because I like the idea. It's starting to look like this season will end with most if not all threads still open. Here's my predictions:
- William and Dolores will escape Logan's band of not-so-merry men through some means. They will end up back at the church and we'll get some small reveal about the nature of the maze or possibly about Arnold (see above).
- Dolores will die, possibly by Logan's hand and William will leave Westworld to return to his normal life. He'll have some speech about how his journey with Dolores may have been pointless, but he still believes there is a deeper purpose hidden somewhere in the park. The next season will probably be built around his repeated visits to the park and the information he uncovered.
- We'll get the MIB-William reveal at some point in the last episode. MIB's story will end with the cliffhanger of him meeting Wyatt, but that's probably as far as it will go.
- Ford will finish his pet project and he'll reveal it to the board (and us the audience). It will probably be something normal, but with more hints about a greater nefarious purpose. As the reveal is happening, there will be cuts back and forth between that and Maeve gathering her "army" of hosts, probably from that big warehouse that Sizemore is in. I suspect she will kill Felix and then say something like "it's time" and that's where the season ends.

Open Question
What do you think the maze will be? It probably won't be an actual physical maze - although MIB and Teddy fighting a minotaur in the last episode was a nice touch. My guess is that "the maze" will be the name of some code Arnold has hidden in the hosts that gives them real consciousness, and thus allows them to harm humans.
  • 3

Carrie wrote:But I suspect Dan will figure it out, because Dan’s apparently magic.
User avatar
DjiboutiDan
TCS Regular
TCS Regular
 
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:20 pm
Location: DC area
Show rep
Title: Bilge Rat

Re: Westworld

Postby KleinerKiller » Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:12 am

DjiboutiDan wrote:
Spoiler: show
- We'll get the MIB-William reveal at some point in the last episode. MIB's story will end with the cliffhanger of him meeting Wyatt, but that's probably as far as it will go.
- Ford will finish his pet project and he'll reveal it to the board (and us the audience). It will probably be something normal, but with more hints about a greater nefarious purpose. As the reveal is happening, there will be cuts back and forth between that and Maeve gathering her "army" of hosts, probably from that big warehouse that Sizemore is in. I suspect she will kill Felix and then say something like "it's time" and that's where the season ends.


Spoiler: show
I don't see Wyatt being a Negan-esque "meet him, fade to black" cliffhanger. He's definitely the final boss of that arc in this season. He just probably won't have the significance MIB thinks he does, in that instead of guarding the maze, he'll actually hold the key to it and the maze will be somewhere else. OR, if the show wants to earn some points back and avoid comparisons to LOST, they will straight-up find the maze after killing him, but we all know how small the likelihood of that is.

It's way too early for Maeve to bring out all of those abandoned hosts. If the show wants to go long-term, those have to be a Chekov's Gun. My money is on her gathering a decent amount of hosts from the park this time around and using both that and Dolores's Dad on the train to escape, and then the next robot uprising will be those warehouse guys, and the final possible uprising is the active hosts in the park unifying and becoming a danger.


DjiboutiDan wrote:
Open Question
What do you think the maze will be? It probably won't be an actual physical maze - although MIB and Teddy fighting a minotaur in the last episode was a nice touch. My guess is that "the maze" will be the name of some code Arnold has hidden in the hosts that gives them real consciousness, and thus allows them to harm humans.


Spoiler: show
I'm utterly shot for guesses as to what the maze could be at this point. Some clues point to it being a hidden area Ford has designed, but a lot of others point to it being Arnold's machinations like what you said. It's almost getting contradictory at this point. MIB believes it's where hosts would be able to kill him, and that's a possibility, but whether it's actually a code allowing hosts to be sentient or just the ultimate high-stakes level of the park, I don't know.

We've seen the symbol tattooed inside a random host's scalp, printed on a coffin decades in the past, somehow just randomly in the sand where Maeve was gutted, and so many more places. If it were a code Arnold put in, surely Ford would have noticed all of the omnipresent symbols by now? And what about Wyatt -- if the maze isn't Ford's new storyline or an Easter Egg for MIB to find, then what purpose does Wyatt even have?

Logically, unless this whole season has just been jerking us around, it has to do something to the hosts or show MIB how to do something to the hosts. That's the only way it has significance. But it's all so infuriatingly vague that I'm only just realizing that only Ed Harris's performance has kept me from realizing how little has actually been said.
  • 4

"Your mind is software. Program it. Your body is a shell. Change it. Death is a disease. Cure it." - Eclipse Phase

NEW REVIEW! Judgment / Judge Eyes (2019)
User avatar
KleinerKiller
Time Waster
Time Waster
 
Posts: 1883
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:34 pm
Location: Newfoungengzealaustrermany
Show rep
Title: Cute

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests