The Unified Star Wars Thread

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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby Australia » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:30 pm

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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby Marcuse » Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:25 pm

Episode 9 has lost its director, claiming irreconcilable creative differences with Lucasfilm. Why do I think the director wanted to do something interesting and the execs are suggesting something safe and familiar?

I'll be honest, the more Star Wars is seduced by the Disney-side, the less I'm hyped for the new material. If Last Jedi is innovative and interesting I might have some hope for the trilogy, but I'm expecting an Empire rehash.
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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:11 am

Marcuse wrote:Episode 9 has lost its director, claiming irreconcilable creative differences with Lucasfilm. Why do I think the director wanted to do something interesting and the execs are suggesting something safe and familiar?

I'll be honest, the more Star Wars is seduced by the Disney-side, the less I'm hyped for the new material. If Last Jedi is innovative and interesting I might have some hope for the trilogy, but I'm expecting an Empire rehash.


I'm not too worried about it. People were freaking out when Disney execs stepped in to cut the shit out of Rogue One, and that movie ended up being pretty awesome and decidedly not safe for a SW movie. It blows my mind that after they've done so well with Marvel, revived their animated films, and have been successful with SW, people continue to think that Disney has no idea what it's doing.

They may be our inevitable corporate overlords, but they make some good stuff while they take over the world.
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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby iMURDAu » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:42 am

JJ is back.

Not the Dy-no-mite guy from Good Times either.

http://www.starwars.com/news/j-j-abrams-to-write-and-direct-star-wars-episode-ix

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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby Marcuse » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:07 pm

I'm pretty disappointed that Abrams is going to direct and write episode 9. He's a good guy for a fun ride that falls apart at the most miniscule examination, but his track record for payoff is not good (looking at you, Lost). Come the final instalment in the Star Wars saga, I sort of wanted something to really end it categorically so there's no more Official movies in the Episode vein. Mainly just to avoid it getting really old and becoming a hollowed out shell of a...oh hello Disney. Didn't see you there.
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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby Lindvaettr » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:41 pm

Marcuse wrote:Mainly just to avoid it getting really old and becoming a hollowed out shell of a...oh hello Disney. Didn't see you there.


Let's be honest here. George Lucas already hollowed out the Star Wars shell, and left it to become a withered husk in the sand, and I hate sand. Star Wars already hit the low bar. As far as I'm concerned, the Expanded Universe stuff (or whatever they call the non-film canon now) is still where it's at. I haven't seen Rebels, but the Clone Wars TV show was better than any of the prequels, and possibly better than Return of the Jedi. The movies have pretty much served to set the stage for much more interesting comics, novels, and more recently TV shows ever since the 80's.
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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby Marcuse » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:25 pm

I think the issue with the prequels though is that they're poorly shot and produced movies. The story isn't that bad, it's just presented badly.

The old canon EU is kind of repetitive though. I recently re-read the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy, and realised that it was essentially the plot of the New Jedi Order series with less books and more neat wrapups at the very end. There's:

Living ships/tech,
from a lost world that turns out to be key to the whole thing.
A xennophobic race,
determined to impose their will on the New Republic,
who use human collaborators,
who have a religious conviction of their superiority,
who have a charismatic diplomat who lies about his true feelings/identity,
who practice habitual sadistic killing.
Facing a divided New Republic beset by infighting,
while Luke goes off and tries to find himself.

Sound familiar????

Also Rebels and Clone Wars are still part of the official canon, it's really just the books that have been non-canoned. Even things like KOTOR have been referenced in Rebels, which have allowed fans to call them totes canon honest.
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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby Lindvaettr » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:41 pm

Oh yeah, I didn't mean the old EU. Most of that was absolute trash. A lot of the stuff that's part of the new EU, like the comics about Vader, and the stuff that was canonized later (like Clone Wars) are much better. Disney is taking much more control over EU, and it's definitely a good step.

As for stories, I agree with you regarding the prequels. The story was good (albeit lacking in some ways), but I feel that it's far too early to judge the new films for their story. Sure, Episode 7 was very similar to ANH, but I'm very interested in seeing where it goes. I'll hold out until I've seen Episode 8 to judge whether or not I like where the story is going.
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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby gisambards » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:48 pm

I worry the new trilogy will have the opposite problem the prequels had.
The central problem for the prequels was that Lucas went for a plot that was way more ambitious and complicated than he was capable of handling as a filmmaker. I often find a lot of the supposed problems with the prequels are ones that actually wouldn't be a problem at all if the films were just written, directed, and in most cases acted better. I think a really talented filmmaker could have done amazing things with the basic plot of the prequels, even keeping in all the talking about politics and the romance.
Whereas I found the problem with both The Force Awakens and Rogue One is that they're very competently made in nearly every aspect - but they don't have any real ambition or creative verve to them. No risks were taken in the making of either movie. Everything's very safe, and very cliche, but still done just well enough that the film is entertaining regardless. But I do think this means the film can never be truly great, and will ultimately actually be quite forgettable. I see no reason why they'll break this pattern for Episodes VIII or IX, or the Han Solo movie. I would be surprised if any of the upcoming movies were genuinely bad, but I think it's a safe assumption that they'll be generally as unimaginative and cliche as TFA and R1 are.
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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby Lindvaettr » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:09 pm

I don't disagree with you, and I have the same worry. On the optimistic side, I like to think there's another possibility:

Episode VII was in a pretty dangerous position. Yeah, it was Star Wars, but it was the first Star Wars film being made by Disney, and with very little (any?) input from Lucas. There were so many new obstacles in play that it's possible Disney wanted to release a simpler, more straight-forward film just so they could start on the right foot. It's not the best Star Wars film, but it's good. Keep in mind that both Episode IV and Episode I had pretty basic plot lines compared to their sequels.

The same might be true for Rogue One. It was the very first Star Wars spin-off ever. If it had gone over badly, it could easily have killed the entire concept of Star Wars spin-offs.

I think sometimes going the safe route is better not just because it's guaranteed money, but because they're building on shaky foundations. If Episode VII and Rogue One did nothing else, they showed the Disney can make competent, enjoyable Star Wars films that make people eager to see the sequels. Now that they've passed the interview, maybe they'll start working a little harder.
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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby Marcuse » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:46 am

The new Last Jedi trailer has dropped, and I'm still figuring out the things they're trying to show us.



First impressions:

Looks like Kylo is going to kill Leia like he did Han. I'm not entirely sure what point him killing his parents serves, except for him being a complete dick in universe. OOC of course it's freeing the actors to not be in Star Wars any more.

Rey seems to initially be welcomed by Luke, but he chickens out when he sees she's powerful. Luke is worst Jedi ever. I do wonder if the power he saw before wasn't Kylo, as the trailer is trying to imply, but Snoke. That would fit with the further material of the trailer, which implies Rey turns to Kylo for support. If she's Snoke's kid, and Snoke has spent time telling Kylo how he should kill the past, she would then end up gunning for Snoke in return. That'd be a neat, if simple, inversion of his teachings.

I'm confused by the portrayal of Finn as wearing a First Order officer suit. I assume that's a disguise, because the idea he would go back to the FO for reals is dumb. Also not surprised Captain Trash Compactor is back. Of course we have a hand to hand fight between them, it's not something I'm super pumped for (unless there's more sick spins ofc).

We're apparently going to see the destruction of the Jedi temple Luke made. It's nothing we didn't hear described already so unless there's something other than "Luke gets the sads" to it, then I'm not really interested.

I suppose my concern is that the thing at the end, where they imply Rey turns to Kylo, is a huge Empire lift. Vader holding his hand out to Luke in the same way and offering to kill the Emperor and rule as father and son is aped by the possibility of Kylo and Rey working together to kill Snoke, Luke, and Leia. I don't know if that's believable for a character like Rey though, so I remain to be convinced that a character who never made an unkind decision in the last movie can manage to deliver nuance and potentially a fall to the Dark Side.

Kylo's metal face thing looks like a sticker.
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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:57 am

WHY DID THEY CUT OFF THE WALKERS' FEET? Ugh great, Disney's brought in transformers style overdesign into star wars.

Also I hate a lot of this bullshit. Luke isn't scared enough of raw power? FUCK THIS SHIT. This RPGification of the force where you earn more XP to learn more neat tricks is the worst thing the prequels brought up, and no one criticized them for it enough.

Now everyone has a fucking pool of force points and Rey is great because she knows high level force powers instinctively and has tons of mana.
When Yoda says
Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.


HE WASN'T SAYING HE HAD A MUCH HIGHER WIS/INT STAT.

The very obvious implication was that Luke could do it too, if only he wasn't letting his feelings that the world is less spiritual, more mundane than it is hold him back. I can understand why people would miss it, it's not like he says
Luke: I don't believe it!
Yoda: That is why you fail


So when Rey can somehow affect everything around her without being aware of the force, what does that even /mean/. Is Yoda wrong then? is Aiden following her around?

Also the new AT-ATs have 90s style triangular evil eyes. Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay who knew giant walking tanks that are trying to overwhelm the base the heroes are in were evil. I'm surprised they didn't put spikes on them.

Mark Hammill needs to be fatter.
Skywalker.png
Skywalker.png (283.77 KiB) Viewed 5188 times


His head to arm ratio is ridiculous.

This is shaping up to be Star Wars: The Legend of Korra.
Stupider Villains, looks better but has way worse worldbuilding, completely misremembers core elements of the original series, is generic as fuck compared to the original.
I'm not okay with that.
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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby Marcuse » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:49 pm

The more I think about this, the more it feels like Empire. The Empire launches an AT-AT attack on a white planet, opposed by speeders that're hopelessly outmatched in retaliation for the destruction of the Imperial superweapon. The Jedi protagonist goes to train in seclusion with a broken Jedi Master who is initially reluctant to train. There's some indication that Rey finds out her parentage and it's monstrous (Ie my Snoke theory, or even knowing she's related to Kylo). There's the question of the pupil leaving the master before being ready and risking falling to the Dark Side.

The only elements that are kind of novel about this are Leia dying, which is probably dictated by external events more than internal plot, and the inclusion of the analogue to the Emperor in this movie. I suppose Finn and Poe are kind of novel too, but they don't really seem relevant to the main plot, which is Rey, Luke, Kylo and Snoke.

I suppose the thing that's properly nagging at me, is that the execs seem to have alighted on the idea that killing off all the OT characters to make way for (younger, cheaper) acting talent is the best way to generate false drama and make the future movies cost less to make. My concern is that everything Kylo has done thus far has been in service to this, more than any clear motivation he has. We've never heard why he wants to kill his parents, and I don't buy him sadly firing on and killing Leia as anything other than the plan all along to excise everything about the OT from the new trilogy.

Also lol at people on the internet claiming that Luke wearing a black robe is indication of anything. He was dressed basically as a fucking Sith Lord all the way through Jedi, and I don't see why he would stop now.
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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby Grimstone » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:39 am

Marcuse wrote:Looks like Kylo is going to kill Leia like he did Han. I'm not entirely sure what point him killing his parents serves, except for him being a complete dick in universe. OOC of course it's freeing the actors to not be in Star Wars any more.


Ren isn't completely bad, he has a 'light side' that is in conflict with his 'dark side' and I think him killing his parents is a desperate attempt to resolve his identity problem.

Rey seems to initially be welcomed by Luke, but he chickens out when he sees she's powerful.


It looks like the two will have a bit of an altercation(maybe Luke tries to kill Rey to prevent another kylo ren from happening).
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Re: The Unified Star Wars Thread

Postby iMURDAu » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:18 pm

gisambards wrote: No risks were taken in the making of either movie.


Star Wars beloved by kids of all ages puts out a movie in which
Spoiler: show
the entire clique of protagonists dies and you don't consider that risky? Sure, anyone who knows anything saw it coming due to them not appearing in chronologically later movies but I'm sure some parents were hesitant to have their kids watch a whole squad get murked.


I'm not taking the new trailer at face value. I'm just going to assume there is clever editing at work in some areas. Who says Kylo commits matricide? Maybe he was talking to someone else about killing the past. Maybe he doesn't kill Leia but she dies in some other way, possibly off screen? Shit I don't even believe Chewy was talking to that Porg. And just because Rey says she needs someone to show where she fits in that doesn't mean she said that to Kylo. That sounds like something she'd say to a powerful mentor type of force user like Snoke or Luke or Jar Jar. Also the trailer could be quoting Luke completely out of context. He could be talking about a superweapon. The Death Star didn't scare him, he just had nerves about the trench run and making the shot.

I believe my style of self-hype is working for me. I don't want to read too much into a trailer that could be featuring shots that don't even make it into the movie. It's all open to interpretation imo. I'm hoping Finn is the last Jedi even though that's not likely. It would be a cool swerve and make his character much more important to the final film.
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