The Walking Dead

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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby iMURDAu » Fri May 06, 2016 2:44 am

The fact we're still talking about it means.............................................................
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby KleinerKiller » Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:20 am

The first trailer for Season 7 has dropped and oh my holy fucking god.



While I still hate the cliffhanger with the burning passion of a thousand red giants, the montage of all the character moments is pretty sweet. If the big kill SOMEHOW doesn't lose its emotional impact despite the buildup being taken away, I will be appeased.

We get a lot of sweet action shots that indicate the show finally growing into the faster pace it deserves for this arc, and Jeffrey Dean Morgan continues to kill it as Negan. I knew he would be great even if he was attached to that wretched awful Twitter bait cliffhanger.

And then we see King Ezekiel, who looks great. We see the Kingdom, which looks great...

Spoiler: show
... AND WE SEE FUCKING SHIVA, WHO MIRACULOUSLY DOES NOT LOOK AWFUL.

I was so sure they'd have to change her into a massive pit bull or some other, cheaper thing, but no. We're getting our fucking tiger. I mean, the CGI might be a little bit wonky, but still -- holy hell's bells, we're getting our fucking tiger.


I'm... excited. Don't let me down again, Gimple.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby KleinerKiller » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:52 am

So.

It's been a long, miserable, cynical wait full of bullshit excuses and limp justifications, but the Season 7 premiere is exactly one week from today. Time to saddle up again, bump this thread, and see whether Jeffrey Dean Morgan's awesomeness can redeem one of the most ill-advised cliffhangers in recent TV history.

Anyone want to make final guesses? Let out some last complaints before the premiere? Anyone just want to drop in and smugly say they stopped watching the show or never cared in the first place, because I don't get enough Walking Dead hate on The A.V. Club, where it's practically a policy mandate that you despise the show and bash it (and the comic, and Robert Kirkman, and Robert Kirkman's weight) constantly because it takes away ratings from your precious prestige shows?

I'm a little bitter, if you couldn't tell.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby gisambards » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:51 am

I must admit: personally not a fan of the show (made a vague attempt to watch it, couldn't get into it), but I think that's mostly because I do find adaptations that simply aren't up to the standard of the original work to be fundamentally pointless. That's not even to say the show's bad - it's just not on the same level as the comics as far as I'm concerned, so I personally don't see the need to watch it. Huge fan of the comics, though (and Telltale's video games).
TL;DR: Smug declaration that I (mostly) never cared in the first place.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby iMURDAu » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:33 pm

Actually the further you get in the show the worse it seems compared to the comic until you're about halfway through Season 3 imo. That's too much to watch to get to the good stuff. If Season 1 didn't hook you then its a good thing because Season 2, aka Farm Livin', is an absolute borefest with an obvious outcome. And I don't think you'd enjoy Andrea's character arc. Especially with her being The BAMF she is in the comics.

My predictions for the Season 7 premiere are pulled straight out of the air, based on my gut feelings:

Spoiler: show
Glenn. He dead. Its gonna be a crazy visual effect that will probably make some viewers uneasy but hey that's the point right. Now I've read where Greg Nicotero said that there's not just one death in the episode. I have a bad feeling they're going to off Carol. That's what I fear but I feel it around the corner. There will be zero fucks spoken by Negan and it will be awful. Jeffrey Dean Morgan can't save that character from censorship. Every episode is going to have at least one moment like in Season 5 (iirc) where Rick awkwardly said "They're messing with the wrong people" because he couldn't say "fucking".
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby KleinerKiller » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:05 pm

The show is definitely the weakest thing out of the three main pieces of Walking Dead media, I can't dispute that. From Season 4 onward, though (after they've gotten past the utter ruination of the Governor and Andrea; still the worst adapting mistakes they've made, and why I hate the Woodbury season far more than most people hate the farm), it definitely picks up in quality. In my most humble of opinions, a smattering of characters and events -- the prison siege and the Governor's death, the Hunters arc, the entire character of Carol (arguably Morgan as well, but he's gotten divisive), that little sequence where one of the children goes murderously crazy, etc -- are actually done far better in the show than they are in the comic, because the show is Robert Kirkman's way of handling missed opportunities.

I don't know that I'd recommend trying once more to watch it, but it's hardly as indefensible these days as it was back when they were navel-gazing on a farm or obliviously dealing with a poorly-handled villain.

As for the premiere:

Spoiler: show
iMURDAu wrote:Glenn. He dead. Its gonna be a crazy visual effect that will probably make some viewers uneasy but hey that's the point right. Now I've read where Greg Nicotero said that there's not just one death in the episode. I have a bad feeling they're going to off Carol. That's what I fear but I feel it around the corner. There will be zero fucks spoken by Negan and it will be awful. Jeffrey Dean Morgan can't save that character from censorship. Every episode is going to have at least one moment like in Season 5 (iirc) where Rick awkwardly said "They're messing with the wrong people" because he couldn't say "fucking".


I'm still banking on Daryl because he's absorbed too many comic character arcs and needs to go, but failing that (if they decide he's still too marketable to kill), I fear Abraham's the most likely to bite it since they saved him from Dwight's arrow and gave that to fucking Denise. Glenn's too obvious now, after two death fake-outs and teases that it will be different from the comics, although he basically does need to die at some point to really kickstart Maggie's vital character development. I have a really disappointing feeling in my gut that it'll be Abraham. Or maybe they'll waste Abraham and Eugene, which... still wouldn't be major enough, but I'm reading into their thought processes here. Whoever it is, though, I maintain that it's still not going to be as powerful a moment as if they'd just stuck it to the end of the finale and let it soak in the built-up tension.

I think Carol's still long for this world. I obviously can't predict it, but I don't think she's going to get offed by some shots from a random Savior after getting dragged all the way to the Kingdom for medical help. She seems fine in the trailer.

Regarding the fucks, it definitely bothers me -- I have Negan's introductory speech basically memorized, so "Not cool. Not fuckin' cool." being switched to "Not cool... Not cool." was pretty awkward, though the change in cadence and context there made it slightly more bearable -- but I love Jeffrey Dean Morgan's performance enough so far that maybe, just maybe, he can power through and make Negan still a worthwhile presence. Losing the "fucks" is a major loss, especially with everything they said about maybe pushing the AMC censors further than other shows get to by virtue of their popularity, but there's much more to Negan as a character than just swearing a lot.

Or maybe they're keeping the "fuck" moments for the home media releases, like they did with Rick's "wrong people" moment. Which... I wouldn't put it past the fuckers.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby iMURDAu » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:23 pm

Its just a word.

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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby Australia » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:09 pm

I wish I was better at computering because I was struck by the most obvious parody of all time and a quick search didn't come up with anything so to share my attempt at humour:

Rick And Morgan (in Rick and Morty's voices)
Rick: We're gonna go *hic* track down and kill the Saviours.
Morgan: Aw, geez, I dunno Rick, they haven't really done anything to us and we don't have any proof they're even all that bad.
Rick: We're going to find their base and kill them in their sleep, Morgan. It's the only way.
Morgan: Geez, can't we just question them or trap 'em or something?
Rick: You're not pussin' out on me, are you Morgan? You don't want to end up like one of these *hic* one of these walkers, do you?

And scene.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby Delta Jim » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:02 am

Just two quick things I noticed rewatching the finale before the season premiere:

Finale spoiler
Negan says the victim took the first hit like a champ. Which I took to mean they managed to remain conscious and not in any visible pain.


When I heard that I figured there was one person who could do that (and I was right).

Premiere Spoiler
Though, Glenn took getting his skull caved in pretty well too.


Also,

Premiere Spoiler
The camera seemed to stay on Abraham a bit longer than with everyone else when Negan first pointed at him while doing the "Eenie-meenie-miney-moe" thing. It might have been nothing, but it seemed odd to me (note: I noticed this BEFORE I saw the premiere OR the "took it like a champ" line. So, while I had a feeling it might be him, I didn't know for sure).


I know some people probably didn't like how long it took to actually reveal who got Lucille'd. And I don't disagree, but I actually didn't mind it too much. That said, I think they should have...

Spoiler: show
Had Abraham's death actually shown in the finale and then just keep the premiere mostly as is. We see Abraham's death again, assuming it's the big emotional moment. Then, midway through the episode, Glenn dies after we've already come to terms with what we thought was the major death of the episode.

Granted, that was kind of the case already. I figured when they said there might be more than one death it was going to be one of the lesser characters (like the one guy from Alexandria whose name I don't care to know) (I don't bother learning names anymore until someone make a significant impression on me. Before that they're just Red Shirts).
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby KleinerKiller » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:38 am

... Holy shit, that episode.

I am still very much consternated by the decision to split it off into the cliffhanger, but I can somewhat understand their rationale now. Because THAT WAS MY FUCKIN' MAN NEGAN. That was his episode. His ten minutes at the end of the finale were solid, but that was what I was really waiting for, that was what I was hyping y'all up for, THAT was why I was so pissed off by the cliffhanger. The wait may have been undeserved, but it was worth it for what just might be my favorite episode of the entire show so far.

Spoiler: show
I actually liked the decision to hold the actual Lucille-ening in media res until roughly the twenty-minute mark. It left me completely adrift in unfamiliar territory as Negan dragged Rick into the RV and went on that little road trip with him -- every time the ax he took from Simon (Stephen Ogg's hitherto-unnamed Savior) got slammed into the desk, I thought for sure that the show was finally having Rick lose his hand to match the comics. Alas, that didn't happen, but Jeffrey Dean Morgan more than made up for it. He's phenomenal in this role, F-bombs or no F-bombs, even more so than in the finale. His one-on-one taunts were perfectly in character, and though having Rick fetch the ax out of the walkers seemed pettily evil, it ultimately lined up with his morality. He grabs this whole episode by the lapels, drags it through the dirt, and makes it his bitch.

And then we flash back to the long-anticipated bat death, upon which my heart was kicking even though it would've been a lot better with the tension of the finale behind it. I called that Abraham was reserved so he could meet his end here, and though I love Abraham and his last moments were perfect, I was left kind of cold by his death. I knew he'd be the decoy death, but still. AND THEN... Daryl gets up and punches Negan in the jaw. And I was so, so ready for the redneck arc-stealer to finally meet his end, because he gets held down in the middle of the field, and Negan spits that he doesn't give second chances for emotional outbursts... but then he kills Glenn instead. Damn it! It needed to happen for Maggie's sake, and the way the scene is set to match the comics version is wonderful, but why? Why wouldn't Negan kill Daryl? Instead, he kidnaps him because he likes his attitude or something. I pray he'll meet his end regardless soon, and that he's not being set up to absorb yet another arc in Carl's weird hate-friendship with Negan. Please let Carl keep that. It's one of the most interesting facets of both characters' stories. Fuck Daryl.

Regardless of my hopes, though, Glenn's death is as tragic as can be expected. And I have to give props to the way the death scenes play out, between the obvious (the gore is some of the best the series has dished up, between Abraham's head splitting into glistening chunks and Glenn being rendered in every comic panel, from the eye-popping and blood-spitting to the way his skull just blossoms open on the dirt; the strings of meat hanging off Lucille's wires were the cherry on top) and the effective touches like the countdown and Abraham's death being filmed from Rick's eyes. And just like I predicted, Steven Yeun sells the hell out of those last desperate, choking words to Maggie. I'll miss him.

But oh, the episode's not done. Rick's still bloodthirsty and rebellious -- he's not broken yet. Negan can't have that. Instead, the RV returns from their road trip, and Rick gets tossed out while Carl is dragged up in front of him. I saw the basics of where the scene was going immediately (Negan supposedly forces Rick to chop off Carl's arm because he's still not submitting), but the performances make it powerful regardless: Carl stares Negan in the eyes and answers questions without fear as his arm is tied off, Negan himself is ever-cocky but exposing his distaste for hurting kids, and Rick... Jesus, Andrew Lincoln deserves accolades for this episode alone. His threats dry up into whimpers and barely-legible pleas, he's crying and sweating and blowing snot bubbles and screaming his lungs out... yeah, Negan breaks him. After six seasons building him up as the unshakeable leader who could always rise back up from the beatings, even more so than his comics incarnation (who is a better character, but one with enough flaws and cracks that just Glenn's death shattered him), it would take this much -- at least, being put in the position, and the imminent threat of it -- to truly put him on his back feet and get him to submit.

Luckily, it was just another showcase of what Negan's willing and able to do, and he calls it off as Rick has picked up the ax -- neither Carl nor Rick actually lose their arms, and Negan actually gets calm and somewhat sympathetic toward all the pain he's caused as he marches off, Daryl and the Saviors in tow.

Now, the episode wasn't perfect. Aside from the wasted Daryl kill-off opportunity and the teases of Rick losing his hand that still went nowhere, the episode kind of floundered in its last minutes. The brief hallucination of everyone sitting at an idealized Thanksgiving dinner, panning to Glenn and Abraham while relevant snippets of Negan's speech replayed, was completely on-the-nose, saccharine, and unnecessary -- it gave us one last look at them with their faces so we could say goodbye, but otherwise, fuck that whole thing. And the whole last scene with Maggie trying to go to the Hilltop on her own and the others refusing to let her go by herself just sort of... confused me with how it was filmed and what everyone was doing.

But other than that, fuck yeah.


Robert Kirkman and Scott Gimple, you have briefly earned my full respect and attention after months of rage and bitterness. This is not an easy thing to earn, and I am liable to toss it away again at a moment's notice. You've made bad decisions in the past, but you're on just the right track you need to be on now, and I'm renewing my faith in you.

Do not squander it.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby iMURDAu » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:07 pm

Has anyone checked out the teaser for next week? Kingdom bay bee!

I enjoyed this season 7 premiere. I was afraid for a few minutes that this would be a tease episode and we wouldn't find anything out about who got beat to death until the very end or worse, next week. The deaths were brutal and represent a tonal shift that the show really needed imo. I did like how they used the footage they filmed of every character getting a lovetap from Lucille. My wife and I were like "hey cool they filmed it and actually used it".

I have to agree with KK about Daryl (spoiler alert: he lives). When he got taken instead of Carl (spoiler alert: AMC won't show a child getting beat to death on camera) I felt that it was just weird. Daryl is a resilient character. He's been taken before. Is this a way of showing that "oh no its different this time he gets kidnapped"? I'd rather see Carl and Rick's and Negan's relationship evolve. I know this is the show and not the comics but dammit. Carl's relationship with Negan was born from this and has maaaaaaay jerrrrr influence on where the story is right now in the comics. If Carl didn't ever get close to Negan then everyone we know as a character in the book would most likely be dead. Negan is literally trying to be a savior, in his own way of course that doesn't directly conflict with Rick. Yet.

And Negan's arc in the comics is the best thing going in the book. If Kirkman thinks he can work better magic on TV then I just hope he's right.

I hope everyone that raged about a cliffhanger understands now why cliffhangers exist. The pay off was definitely worth the wait.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby KleinerKiller » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:01 pm

iMURDAu wrote:I hope everyone that raged about a cliffhanger understands now why cliffhangers exist.


I agree with everything except this. Even if the payoff was an entire episode of long-awaited Negan hijinks, the cliffhanger was still a shitty cliffhanger that didn't give any resolution after a full season of teases, foreshadowing, and implicit promises. This may have been the absolute best way they could execute what they had after that cliffhanger, but it could have been handled better in the first place, and in a more ideal adaptation -- one somehow free from the constraints of ratings grabs -- it would have been.

I fully expect that if/when the show gets through this story arc and starts handling the Whisperers,

Spoiler: show
they'll have Rick pull the hoods off the heads on Alpha's pike wall in sequence, tension building up, and then cut to the POV of the final one as everyone stares in horror and leave its identity a secret for half a year.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby iMURDAu » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:13 pm

By definition a cliffhanger isn't supposed to provide resolution. If it gave resolution it would then be a shitty cliffhanger as there's no more suspense. What would be there be to look forward to?

Unrelated but did anyone know there's been a crossover between Skybound/Image and DC Comics....

Spoiler: show
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby KleinerKiller » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:42 pm

iMURDAu wrote:By definition a cliffhanger isn't supposed to provide resolution. If it gave resolution it would then be a shitty cliffhanger as there's no more suspense. What would be there be to look forward to?


The way I see it, if they needed to have the Lucille-ening open this season rather than conclude the last, most of the problems I have with it could have been avoided if they'd just announced the Negan casting as "Jeffrey Dean Morgan has been cast as Negan in Season 7."

A cliffhanger is only a good cliffhanger if it comes out of nowhere, and the entire back half of Season 6 was spent building up Negan's appearance and the Saviors' policy of bashing someone's brains in if they get pissed off. Everything from the gory photos in the Savior outpost to the "Last Day On Earth" title made it blatantly clear even to people who hadn't read the comics that someone would die, and after all of the speculation going into that finale, all we knew was... someone died, and we would be forced to wait most of the year for an answer. All of that great tension built up, essentially, to nothing.

If the marketing had been "the season will end with everyone in place to adapt Something to Fear, you'll get to see Negan for the first time in the Season 7 premiere," but THEN they gave us those ten minutes of Negan and the bat death teaser, it would still be a bitter pill that I'd have problems with (mainly regarding the tension build-up problem), but it would have caught us all off guard that the show went that far, and I'd be more understanding.

That's just my opinion, and we're probably going to have to agree to disagree. I loved the premiere regardless, even if I still think the cliffhanger was a bad move and there were many better ways to handle it, and I'm all set to move on to whatever gory delights this season has in store for us.
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Re: The Walking Dead

Postby iMURDAu » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:35 pm

Like when Shiva ends up eating some asshole Savior.

Make it happen AMC!
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