Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Aquila89 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:49 am

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So the White Walkers couldn't have gotten past the Wall without a dragon?

That's an upsetting concept, because it'd mean that they weren't an existential threat until our heroes came along. All those speeches Jon made about how the White Walkers are more important than everything else, how everyone has to band together if they need to survive... he was wrong, they wouldn't have been a threat if he just left them alone.

Imagine that, we've been rooting for him for seven seasons, and everything would be so much better if he never existed, or died before season 7 (or wasn't brought back when he did die). That's just way too mean, even by Game of Thrones standards.

Was that really the intention? Or is it just bad writing?
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Australia » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:22 am

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I think We're Fucked was the original title for the show when it was first pitched.

I am shocked Theon survived this season. He, Yuron and Littlefinger were the three I thought were absolute goners before the premiere since I figured they'd be excess baggage for the final six hours. And this is the first episode I've liked him in five years.

That Littlefinger getting littlefingered scene was so satisfying. And this might be the most I've liked Sansa ever. Also he was stabbed in the neck, not the face, so Arya could still end up wearing him next year (or 2019 if fears turn out to be true).

I think episode 6 is still my favourite of the season but that last scene comes pretty close to tipping this over to first place. Tense as fuck.

Fake Edit: I'm pretty sure it was deliberate writing that Jon inadvertently helped the Whitewalkers, given he literally just told Theon his approach to life and honor wasn't perfect and has caused collateral damage, and that would seem to work thematically. Still, I don't think it would have happened nearly as quickly but they would have found a way past the wall. Did you see the size of that army?
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Aquila89 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:59 am

Spoiler: show
Australia wrote:
Fake Edit: I'm pretty sure it was deliberate writing that Jon inadvertently helped the Whitewalkers, given he literally just told Theon his approach to life and honor wasn't perfect and has caused collateral damage, and that would seem to work thematically. Still, I don't think it would have happened nearly as quickly but they would have found a way past the wall. Did you see the size of that army?


I do hope so. Wights can cross the Wall, since they just took one to King's Landing. And it has a gate. So maybe they'd just climb it, kill everyone and open the gate. It's just easier to use the dragon.

Though if they couldn't cross it, imagine what a moron Jon would've looked like. Imagine that everything goes according to plan. They capture a wight and don't lose a dragon. They took the wight to King's Landing and convince Cersei. Every army in Westeros marches to the Wall. And they wait... and wait... and wait... and nothing.

And one more thing. Dany now outright said that she can't have kids because the witch told her that. As I've mentioned before; in the show she did not. Now it really makes no sense that they changed it.
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Last edited by Aquila89 on Fri May 03, 2019 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Doodle Dee. Snickers » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:43 am

Aquila89 wrote:
Spoiler: show
Australia wrote:
Fake Edit: I'm pretty sure it was deliberate writing that Jon inadvertently helped the Whitewalkers, given he literally just told Theon his approach to life and honor wasn't perfect and has caused collateral damage, and that would seem to work thematically. Still, I don't think it would have happened nearly as quickly but they would have found a way past the wall. Did you see the size of that army?


I do hope so. Wights can cross the Wall, since they just took one to King's Landing. And it has a gate. So maybe they'd just climb it, kill everyone and open the gate. It's just easier to use the dragon.

Though if they couldn't cross it, imagine what a moron Jon would've looked like. Imagine that everything goes according to plan. They capture a wight and don't lose a dragon. They took the wight to King's Landing and convince Cersei. Every army in Westeros marches to the Wall. And they wait... and wait... and wait... and nothing.

And one more thing. Dany now outright said that she can't have kids because the witch told her that. As I've mentioned before; in the books she did not. Now it really makes no sense that they changed it.


Spoiler: show
I should point out RE: "Jon's mission helped the White Walkers", it's entirely possible that the reason the White Walkers got so stirred up in the first place was that wildlings started moving further and further north when it was agreed that humans would stay on their side the wall. Now, I don't know how that accurate a motivation that is, given that killing the elves gives me the impression that they're just superweapons run amok, but the whole thing with Viserion would certainly play into that message of "If everyone just left well enough alone, it'd be alright", which is kind of GRRM's thing.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby cmsellers » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:30 pm

Something I've read, which I'm spoilering because y'all may not have
The showrunners admitted that the ice dragon destroying The Wall, and several other plot points this season, were not part of GRRM's original plot. I still like the "Benjen is working with the Walkers and deliberately led Bran past the wall so the Night King can cross it" theory and hope it happens in the books.


It's interesting that for the first five seasons I was reading the wiki (rather than the books themselves) and thinking "The show has done a nice job of cutting down what seems like a lot of extraneous plot details," something my father—who actually read the books—also observed. I was disappointed by the absence of book Aegon, who I think would have been interesting to have even had he died. Then the last season I mostly felt that showrunners had streamlined things effectively, but was annoyed with the Iron Islands and pissed about Dorne.

This season, I feel like they've gone too far in cutting things down and gone for too many of the easy fantasy fan-service tropes that Martin eschewed (though I still won't be upset if they work Cleganebowl in), and given that the Walkers have to be defeated and the Seven Kingdoms reunited in six episodes (GRRM's "bittersweet" ending) I expect next season to be even worse.

I wonder though if trying to avoid typical tropes is why Martin is having so much trouble wrapping the series up in the first place.

My prediction for how it all ends
The Walkers overrun Last Hearth and Karholt extinguishing House Umber and Karstark, and the Walkers are defeated in the second-to-last episode while laying siege to Winterfell. As predicted by many people, Jamie kills Cersei in that same episode. Jon dies fighting the Night King, Dany dies in childbirth, and Tyrion becomes regent for Jon and Dany's impossible baby. Euron and Yara both die leaving Theon ruler of the Iron Islands and Sansa declares the independence of The North again. Bronn finally gets his castle.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby reallifegirl » Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:32 pm

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So my sister and I have been stressing out over the Arya/Sansa storyline this whole season because we were taking opposite sides on the whole thing (TEAM SANSA) and we kind of ID with the respective sisters (my sister thinks she's Arya because she constantly likes to fight people). So our watches of each episode have become increasingly tense as we debate which sister is in the right, and whether or not they'd figure out Littlefinger's influence.

(Our brother has also decided he's Bran in real life because he just likes to say weird shit to freak us out.)

So the resolution to that storyline was SOOOOOOOOOOOO SATISFYING. Our room was just filled with us, my brother, and our cousin screaming, freaking out everywhere and startling the dog.

Meanwhile, we've also joked that our dad looks a lot like Littlefinger, so we've joked about having a 'hair twin' on the show. So when we watched the episode, we talked to our dad later and said "We're sorry we murdered you, Dad. But in fairness, it was partially to avenge our father. So we killed you to get revenge for you."
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Australia » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:10 pm

Sellers, I can get on board with most of that prediction, apart from
Spoiler: show
cmsellers wrote:...leaving Theon ruler of the Iron Islands...

Look, I may have gone from sick of Ric's shit to tolerating Theon but he has never done anything to convince me he'd be a good or even passable leader. He wouldn't last a week.
Greyjoyless.jpg
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Aquila89 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:33 pm

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Theon himself said that he isn't fit to rule.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Anglerphobe » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:03 pm

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There would also be the mess his succession would likely leave, given the fact that he can't have natural children. An adopted heir is generally a precarious one, especially if the leader he is supposed to succeed is as weak domestically as Theon would be.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Aquila89 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:46 pm

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Succession? The people of the Iron Island elect their kings, don't they?

On a different note: Jon is a trueborn heir, but he swore loyalty to Dany. Is that valid? Can someone swear loyalty to an inferior? Because if yes, he won't be king, he's a man of his word.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Marcuse » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:00 pm

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Succession? The people of the Iron Island elect their kings, don't they?


Not so much. Before the Kingsmoot Aeron Greyjoy called, there hadn't been one for a long time.

Ice and Fire Wiki wrote:Despite it being well-known Ironborn tradition that allows them to choose a new King, the kingship of the Iron Islands has instead been passed down through various lines, including the Hoare and Greyjoy families, for last few hundred years. As such, it has been a long time since a Kingsmoot had been held.


It's a bit messy, but the show kind of just indicates that the Ironborn always select a king by moot, when it's more an old tradition brought back up by Aeron because he knows the succession hands kingship to Euron and he wants to avoid it by having a Kingsmoot name Victarion king instead.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby cmsellers » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:49 pm

Australia wrote:Sellers, I can get on board with most of that prediction, apart from
Spoiler: show
cmsellers wrote:...leaving Theon ruler of the Iron Islands...

Look, I may have gone from sick of Ric's shit to tolerating Theon but he has never done anything to convince me he'd be a good or even passable leader. He wouldn't last a week.
Greyjoyless.jpg

Given that:
Nobody outside the Iron Islands cares about the Iron Islands in the story and I imagine all the viewers want Yara to become ruler of the Iron Islands, this seems like a good "fuck you" to viewers. It would compensate for Sansa being alive to rule the North as I expect will happen, and it would explain the decision to suddenly give Theon character development after several seasons.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Marcuse » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:00 pm

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leaving Theon ruler of the Iron Islands


No godless man may sit the seastone chair.

What does Theon mean again?

Oh right. Godly.

Well that about indicates where the story is going with that one. There's obviously a redemption plot with him finding himself again and recovering, it's just been presented ham-fistedly by the show. I expect the book plot will also place Theon as the ruler of the Iron Islands at the end too.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Aquila89 » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:08 pm

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Thinking about it, I feel like they made the Night King too strong, now that he has a dragon.

Dragons are game-changers in war. Dany easily obliterated an army with one. No castle is protection against them - remember Harrenhal. It was discussed that Dany could destroy King's Landing if she tried, but she doesn't want to kill so many innocents.

The Night King has no such concerns. What's stopping him from flying to King's Landing and burning it to the ground, killing the million people who live there? What's stopping him from destroying Winterfell? Yeah, Dany still has two dragons. But the Night King killed Viserion with little effort. One ice spear, one hit, and he was done.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby SandTea » Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:39 pm

Heads up, I'm not (always) making jokes, I'm legitimately horrible at names in this show. (pretty much every other show as well)

Spoiler: show
I doubt danny's gonna send her kiddos after Ice Buscemi and his new ride. This is where I'm thinking Gold Hand might ask Wylde Scientist to make a bunch of those "what about a bow and arrow, but bigger!?" things that have some extra fire stats. So when cersi and her Friendzoned Boat Guy make their move, danny can (If I remember right) send one unridden to wreck shop on the boats while fire bombing the other or have snowsand (got me, one of the few names I do know) ride it.

I'm probably wrong but she only needs to ride one to have target precision but having a flotilla of baddies she can just point at and then the drag can click indiscriminately on those trapped davey locker adjacent would be fun. Or we might get to see jonny butts get his will to survive on.

I'm picturing Frost the Magic Dragon getting hit by a shit tonne of my made up wylde stallions! fire ballistas and I just think that would look cool.
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