Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

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Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Whisperstotoast » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:19 pm

I'm almost disappointed that there's no Game of Thrones thread yet.

Rules to start, though: This thread is open spoilers for people who have only seen the show. Closed spoilers for people who have read the books to comment on similarities and such.

That said, season 3 has started off well, hasn't it?
Spoiler: show
I still mith Vargo Hoat. R.I.P.


Only big problem with the show so far has been a lackluster Wildling section and Catelyn's out of place moan-fest about everyone's favorite bastard.

Spoiler: show
I am waiting so impatiently for that Red Wedding.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby NisiOptimum » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:55 pm

I have such a love-hate relationship with that show. It's great and yet I find I can't suppress the urge to constantly compare it to the books, where it obviously comes up short (sorry to be that guy). That's not a criticism. Obviously in a book series you don't have to worry about budget and can spend more time world-building, which is something I love. The Bloody Mummers are case in point- they're pretty minor characters and it makes sense to cut them in the show- but they were so interesting (in any other series they'd have been the main bad guys) and added such a feeling of depth that it's a shame they won't be showing up.

That said I am extremely intrigued by to see what's going on with
Spoiler: show
Theon and the guy I'm assuming is Ramsey? I was sure I knew what was going to happen from the first time he showed up but the last episode really wrong-footed me. It's been a while since I watched the show without having a pretty good idea of what was going to happen and I'm definitely enjoying it
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby GlassNotFull » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:17 am

Spoiler: show
Where is my favourite pit fighter, Strong Belwas?
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Blackfish » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:22 pm

GlassNotFull, agreed!
Spoiler: show
I would be extremely disappointed if Strong Belwas doesn't defecate on a champion's cloak and wipe his ass with it. That was possibly one of my favourite scenes in the series.


And that thing with Theon
Spoiler: show
and Ramsay I think maybe Ramsay is kidnapping Theon to use as a bargaining chip against his father to make him legitimate. I'm a bit murky about what actually happened in the books but this seems like the direction the show is going in.

I'm more curious about what non-book readers think is going on in Theon's scenes.

I don't know if it's better writing on GRRM's part, better writing on the showrunners' part, or just that more time has elapsed since I read the books (I was wrapping up AFfC when they announced the Sean Bean casting) so I can more easily see the show on its own merit, but this season's been firing on all cylinders so far. Even the sex scenes have not been embarrassing.

That said, I really don't like the credits sequence for episode 3. I'm not averse to using songs instead of the usual gloomy/ominous tone over the credits, but there is a right way and a wrong way. The way they did 'Rains of Castemere' last season = the right way. Punk rock 'Bear and the Maiden Fair' is the wrong way, imo. It almost changes the tone of that last whammer of a scene from 'oh shit son' to 'trollolol', and robs one of the most shocking events in the series of some of its punch.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby jollybootsofdoom » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:29 am

That said, I really don't like the credits sequence for episode 3. I'm not averse to using songs instead of the usual gloomy/ominous tone over the credits, but there is a right way and a wrong way. The way they did 'Rains of Castemere' last season = the right way. Punk rock 'Bear and the Maiden Fair' is the wrong way, imo. It almost changes the tone of that last whammer of a scene from 'oh shit son' to 'trollolol', and robs one of the most shocking events in the series of some of its punch.


Honestly, I don't know if I can agree. It's shown earlier that this group was singing that song. I'm going to guess much of the audience probably thought it was a funny, quirky little song they could learn all the words to later and sing along with their friends ( anecdotal to be sure, but I know I did.) But by the time the near-rape and Jamie losing his hand came around, I had forgotten all about it. I was mortified by the entire scene.

And then those damn credits played. And that song. And I realized, not even an hour ago, I had been supporting these characters. I had been laughing at a rapist's sing-along. I felt even more horrible.

As far as what this nonbook reader thinks is going on in Theon's scenes, I honestly don't know. I sent that entire time asking myself "what the hell is going on?! what the hell??? WHAT THE HELL, HE ALMOST ...WTF???!!!"
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Blackfish » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:57 am

jollybootsofdoom wrote:Honestly, I don't know if I can agree. It's shown earlier that this group was singing that song. I'm going to guess much of the audience probably thought it was a funny, quirky little song they could learn all the words to later and sing along with their friends ( anecdotal to be sure, but I know I did.) But by the time the near-rape and Jamie losing his hand came around, I had forgotten all about it. I was mortified by the entire scene.

And then those damn credits played. And that song. And I realized, not even an hour ago, I had been supporting these characters. I had been laughing at a rapist's sing-along. I felt even more horrible.

Interesting take on the credits song! I hadn't thought about it like that. Personally though, I don't think that was the intention. Maybe you wouldn't necessarily outright hate the Bolton men at the beginning of the episode, but as far as Brienne and Jaime are concerned, they're clearly not the 'good guys' there. I mean, Jaime has this conversation with Brienne about being raped as the song is still being sung in the background.

I'm also not objecting so much to the use of 'The Bear and the Maiden Fair', but the punk rock arrangement. It felt completely out of place.

jollybootsofdoom wrote:As far as what this nonbook reader thinks is going on in Theon's scenes, I honestly don't know. I sent that entire time asking myself "what the hell is going on?! what the hell??? WHAT THE HELL, HE ALMOST ...WTF???!!!"

Haha, cool. Any theories as to what's going on there though?
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby jollybootsofdoom » Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:36 am

Maybe you wouldn't necessarily outright hate the Bolton men at the beginning of the episode, but as far as Brienne and Jaime are concerned, they're clearly not the 'good guys' there. I mean, Jaime has this conversation with Brienne about being raped as the song is still being sung in the background.


Very true. I can completely understand why you and I'm guessing many others found the song jarring. And why I could be very much alone in my take on the ending credits song choice.

I know Jaime was telling Brienne about being raped as the song was being sung in the background, but if anything, that only helped cement in my mind that Jamie was lying. I've been in full-blown Lannister hate mode for two seasons now, and I kind of feel like the writers used it against me. I would have put money down on Jaime lying about the upcoming rape. "He's just trying to scare her, he has to be. Lying asshole Lannister". And then when it did begin, I thought for sure they'd just outright kill her for fighting back, or that Brienne would miraculously escape and release Jamie and start off some big chase scene through the woods. Maybe I was naive and should have seen what was coming, especially given the show. But I didn't, and dear god was that reality-smacking stuff.

As for Theon, usually I'd guess it's an enemy of his blood family that he may or may not even be aware of. Or maybe somebody is hoping to leverage information out of him to get to the Starks. But this show has done nothing but make me wrong about my guesses at every turn so far, so I'm somewhat expecting something completely different now.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Australia » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:57 am

Spoiler: show
Mother. Fucking. Dragons.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Rebo » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:38 pm

I think this was the best episode of the series so far.

My vote is that the punk rock credits were jarring.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Blackfish » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:31 pm

Spoiler: show
FUCK YEAH DANY

This was my favourite moment in the books, and holy crap the show didn't disappoint. What other scenes?

[S03E03 spoilers]
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby NisiOptimum » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:17 pm

Spoiler: show
Agreed that might have been the best episode yet! The Unsullied marching out of Astapor sent chills down my spine. Is anyone else crazy excited for Hound v. Beric: The Stabathon Begins?
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Robert » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:06 pm

Spoiler: show
The Sack of Astapor was amazing. I had goosebumps. Now I'm trying to get ready for Dany not being so Awesomely Badass for an undefined number of episodes. She is still my favorite character by far though, both in the books and the show.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Ashtherion » Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:48 pm

Spoiler: show
I AM DAENAERYS STORMBORN OF HOUSE TARGARYEN, BLOOD OF OLD VALYRIA. VALYRIAN IS MY MOTHER TONGUE.


God that was an amazing scene. The fact that I'd guessed it would happen (I haven't read the books) didn't diminish it all.

Spoiler: show
As for why it was expected: Trading off a dragon just doesn't seem very much like Dany to me. She's the mother of dragons, and she's personally said that they are the only children she will ever bear. I get that House Targaryen's been filled with nutjobs throughout history, but I don't see Dany-who mother bears her followers- selling off one of her children.


I'm expecting that she'll be the one left standing at the end of it all, so long as she doesn't y'know, get assassinated.
Spoiler: show
White Walkers? Bitch please. All is reduced to kindling and ash 'neath dragons' breath. Harrenhall is proof.


Robb's a nice guy, so I want to root for him as well, but as one of the most morally upstanding characters, you just KNOW he's going to get killed sooner or later. GoT just isn't that kind of story.

My favourite characters so far are probably the Olenna Tyrell (C'mon, "Queen of Thorns"? That's BAD-ASS) and Tywin. They're not nice and they're neither honourable nor humble. But they are smart. They are focussed. They are vicious, and vindictive, and they would cut through a million lives to achieve their goals without hesitation. But what I like about them the most is that they're just about the only two individuals on the entire show who aren't absolutely mired in themselves.

Cersei was right when she said that Varys was dangerous because he didn't have a cock. She was wrong about her not having one though, and I don't mean just in weird futa fanfiction either. Everyone on the entire show has some...mortal, human desire that drives them, rules over them, makes them do what they do, that makes them easy to predict, manipulable and vulnerable. Margaery wants power, Cersei wants power, Littlefinger wants power even more (or at least more overtly) to make up for his insecurities, Robb wants to be left alone like a moody teenager, Catelyn wants her daughters back, Stannis wants to bone the red woman, shake off middle child syndrome and be king, Jorah wants Daenaerys, Tyrion just wants love from his family, doesn't get it, and spends his time and coin with other misfits licking his wounds and coming up with ways to spite the ones who spawned and spurned him despite desperately wanting to be loved at the same time!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Olenna and Tywin aren't driven and motivated people. Olenna's trying to keep her family alive and probably make some sort of power play whilst she's at it, and Tywin's alllll about the family name. But they don't let those things lord over them. Tywin's had a son held hostage for almost one and a half seasons, two if you count both sons, and the guy just keeps going steamrolling over everyone in his path, completely immune to the squabblings and attempted manipulations of everyone else. Sociopathic? Perhaps. But also awesome.

As for Varys...well, he's sort of like that, I guess. Except the guy's way too nebulous with his plans for me to tell whether he's actually any good at getting his goals like Olenna and Tywin.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Rebo » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:45 pm

Varys has a cock i think, just not balls. He just wants what is good for the kingdom. He's one of my favorites.

I still have trouble not viewing Littlefinger as the mayor from The Wire.
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Re: Game of Thrones [Spoilers heavy]

Postby Blackfish » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:55 pm

Ashtherion wrote:
Spoiler: show
I AM DAENAERYS STORMBORN OF HOUSE TARGARYEN, BLOOD OF OLD VALYRIA. VALYRIAN IS MY MOTHER TONGUE.


God that was an amazing scene.

It really is. Every time I see someone discussing it, I feel the need to watch that scene again. I've probably watched it a dozen times in the past week, and it still sends chills down my spine, every time.
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