The Last Jedi

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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby A Combustible Lemon » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:40 am

Marcuse wrote:This is going to keep bothering me if I don't say it.

Spoiler: show
On Canto Bight, Finn and Rose break free and release the dog horse creatures, but they don't free the enslaved children. I think that's because they were trying to call back to the earlier material at the end with the "anyone can be a superhero Force user" stuff, but it just revealed that the same kids they met were still enslaved. Some heroes.

Spoiler: show
I'll do you one better. The cops went after the people who owed a parking ticket explicitly over the giant horde stampeding out of control. They had absolutely no idea these guys were rebellion.
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WE ARE ALL FLOATING IN THE WINDS OF TIME. BUT YOUR CANDLE WILL FLICKER FOR SOME TIME BEFORE IT GOES OUT -- A LITTLE REWARD FOR A LIFE WELL LIVED. FOR I CAN SEE THE BALANCE AND YOU HAVE LEFT THE WORLD MUCH BETTER THAN YOU FOUND IT, AND IF YOU ASK ME, said Death, NOBODY COULD DO ANY BETTER THAN THAT...
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Cobra-D » Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:57 am

Deathclaw_Puncher wrote:Ladies And Gentlemen, prepare to feast your eyes on the most pathetic thing you'll ever see.




You can't just petition every little things you hate away. You live with it dammit.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Grimstone » Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:07 am

Cobra-D wrote:You can't just petition every little things you hate away. You live with it dammit.


https://www.change.org/p/petition-to-have-cobra-d-redact-this-comment-he-made
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby BROWNRECLUSE » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:11 am

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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Aquila89 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:56 am

Mark Hamill had some problems with how Luke's character was handled.

Spoiler: show
“That’s the crux of my problem. Luke would never say that. I’m sorry. Well in this version, see I’m talking about the George Lucas Star Wars. This is the next generation of Star Wars, so I almost had to think of Luke as another character. Maybe he’s Jake Skywalker. He’s not my Luke Skywalker, but I had to do what Rian wanted me to do because it serves the story well”.


Now that doesn't mean he hates the movie or thinks people should be angry. He added: "it’s only a movie. I hope people like it. I hope they don’t get upset, and I came to really believe that Rian was the exact man that they needed for this job”.

But that's kind of how I feel. This new thing, it's not my Star Wars. For me, Star Wars ends with the Return of the Jedi. The Empire is defeated, the Emperor is dead, we do not return to a huge, powerful Empire and a rebellion against it 20 years later, completely negating the whole victory. I'm glad that Han, Luke and Leia have all been disposed with, and won't appear in further sequels. Now the whole thing will even have less to do with my Star Wars. And I can just ignore it from now on.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Ladki96 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:28 pm

I liked shirtless Kylo Ren :-) the rest of the film was okay
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Australia » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:38 pm

Recluse, not a bad gif but it's missing something.

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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:04 am

I liked the morally gray take on Skywalker.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby SandTea » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:56 pm

Just one-ish thing that irked me-
Spoiler: show
Luke, bruh, sweep yo damn jedi meditation rock man. That must be a literal pain in the ass to sit on.

Also, thanks a lot movie... now I really want to see a for funsies force tug-o-war game with all the big names.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Deathclaw_Puncher » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:31 pm

So, is Kylo Ren
Spoiler: show
a sithlord now or still a Knight of Ren
?
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Marcuse » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:58 pm

Deathclaw_Puncher wrote:So, is Kylo Ren
Spoiler: show
a sithlord now or still a Knight of Ren
?


That's a difficult question to answer. The official fluff is, per the events of Return of the Jedi and the prophecy referred to in the prequel trilogy state that Anakin would destroy the Sith, and by becoming one of them and killing them both, he did that. So by logical extension (and given we know literally nothing about Snoke), he was never trained by a member of the Order of the Sith Lords, and so cannot rightly claim the title of Darth or the name of Sith Lord.

On the other hand, the Knights of Ren appear to have been written out of the trilogy entirely. They seem to be a way to refer to the apprentice Jedi that absconded with Kylo when the Jedi temple was burned, and the content of TLJ supports the idea that he was in some way in league with those apprentices before he had his confrontation with Luke. That said, we have no idea who they are, why they left, or what Ren is. We don't know why Ben Solo chose to change his name to Kylo Ren and where that comes from, probably because it was just a simple device to fake out the audience prior to TFA, that nobody bothered to think to explain.

The closest thing you could refer to Kylo as is a "dark Jedi", which was a term commonly used in the Expanded Universe novels before they got their shit together and re-introduced Sith into the stories to refer to people who dropped out of Luke's Jedi Academy on Yavin IV, like Kueller and Brakiss. It basically just means someone trained in Jedi arts who's fallen to the Dark Side, and fits Kylo the best right now.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Tesseracts » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:42 pm

I enjoyed the movie. I was afraid to watch it and put it off for a while because the trailer didn't impress me. I heard it was like a Marvel movie, which made me not want to see it. I finally saw it yesterday and didn't think it was like a Marvel movie at all. I didn't think it was very funny, but the humor wasn't gratuitous and annoying. I was afraid the porgs were going to ruin the movie with their ugly fake bird shenanigans, but thankfully they didn't turn the porgs into the next Jar Jar or ewoks. It wasn't like a Marvel movie at all, it seemed like a Star Wars movie to me.

Spoiler: show
The action scenes were fun to watch, although there were too many of them. I think the moral conflict Ren and Rey felt was believable. Previous Star Wars movies have tried to make the morality less black and white and failed horribly, I think this one succeeded, which is nice.

I could have done without the whole mutiny plot, it was stupid and felt like it belonged in another movie. That whole thing was going nowhere and just seemed like a distraction from the real plot. They only wrote it because they needed an excuse to stick the new characters in there. I like the characters, I just wish they had a better plot for them. Poe and Finn are charming characters and fun to watch, which is one of the things which made the original trilogy appealing. Mark Hamill is always good to see but his character wasn't very fun this time. I think Poe is taking the place that Mark Hamill used to occupy, a good looking brave hero who "blows stuff up" as the movie derisively phrased it. I understand why Mark is not happy about being in a movie that seems to be written with the purpose of discarding him. The whole thing they do where they bring back old characters for nostalgia and slowly kill them off is annoying and a waste of time. It's like the Force Awakens was about killing Hans Solo, this movie is getting rid of Luke, and the next one will probably be about getting rid of Leia. Great, then maybe we can get to the real Star Wars plot again without all this long drawn out celebrity worship?

I like the criminal character and I'm looking forward to his role in future movies. That's the best thing I got out of the whole side plot.

The biggest plot hole in the movie is Luke changing his mind. When exactly did he change his mind? Why did he change his mind? I was enjoying the fact that he became old and cynical. I think that's a believable development for somebody who peaked in their 20s. He said the jedi need to end and nothing can change his mind. That was interesting, and made you wonder why he came to that conclusion. Too bad he never really explained it. He said he fucked up, but that's his problem, what's that have to do with the jedi as a whole? Then suddenly, Yoda set some things on fire, and Luke suddenly had a complete change of heart? What? This movie needs way more exposition.

My least favorite development in the movie is the ghosts. I'm disappointed that ghost Yoda exists in this universe at all. I was hoping the new Star Wars would leave the whole ghost thing behind. But no. Rather than leave the ghosts behind, they made the ghosts suffer from major power creep. Now we have established that ghosts can summon storms at will. This sets a horrible precedent. What's next, ghost Yoda participating in battles? It's awful. The whole astral projection thing is also new. Luke was basically fighting with a lightsaber as a living ghost. I guess space travel is obsolete now? I don't know.

There are some major plot problems here, but it's not unsalvageable. The next movie can explain the mythology better. Or fuck it up more. This whole movie felt like a placeholder, which unfortunately is to be expected for the second movie in a trilogy. What they do with the next movie will determine if I think positively or negatively about this one.


My favorite new Star Wars movie is still Rogue One. It's stronger because it doesn't suffer from all the typical Star Wars baggage.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby DanteHoratio » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:12 am

Deathclaw_Puncher wrote:So, is Kylo Ren
Spoiler: show
a sithlord now or still a Knight of Ren
?

I would personally think of him as just a Dark Side force wielder, or Dark Jedi, not apart of the Order of the Sith Lords. I have not seen much information about the Knights of Ren.


Marcuse wrote:
Deathclaw_Puncher wrote:So, is Kylo Ren
Spoiler: show
a sithlord now or still a Knight of Ren
?


That's a difficult question to answer. The official fluff is, per the events of Return of the Jedi and the prophecy referred to in the prequel trilogy state that Anakin would destroy the Sith, and by becoming one of them and killing them both, he did that.

One would think that would not be enough to truly destroy the Sith, since anyone could find some Sith knowledge and gain enough knowledge and power to call themself Sith. I always considered that the "restore balance to the Force" meant that one would have to unite the Light and Dark side of the Force and make the Force whole.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Marcuse » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:46 am

One would think that would not be enough to truly destroy the Sith, since anyone could find some Sith knowledge and gain enough knowledge and power to call themself Sith. I always considered that the "restore balance to the Force" meant that one would have to unite the Light and Dark side of the Force and make the Force whole.


This is why I said at the start that it's a difficult question to answer. One of the features of the post-Bane Rule of Two Sith is that they placed great stock in there being two Sith all the time and their lineage is unbroken from the time of Darth Bane. While that's an evasion, it's definitely true that for all the Sith junk lying around the galaxy there's none of the existing members of the Order of the Sith Lords to continue that lineage and constitute a continuation of the Baneite tradition.

The old books used to evade this too by considering the new Sith a new tradition apart from Baneite Sith. Caedus was considered one of "Lumiya's Sith" in any kind of classification system. The One Sith tradition was completely separate from the Rule of Two and was differentiated by having multiple adherents who claimed to be part of a whole.

The prophecy is also weird, because the initial expression of it is "bring balance to the Force" but somewhere in Clones they start saying "bring balance to the Force and destroy the Sith" which is arguably unbalancing the Force. The content of TLJ at least implies that this is something they consider to be true at Lucasfilm, because both Luke and Snoke make explicit mention of how dark and light are opposing and complementary and you can't have one without the other.
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Re: The Last Jedi

Postby Marcuse » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:06 pm

Relevant to the movie itself, Mark Hamill appears to have been asked to walk back his repeated comments about disagreeing with the creative decisions on The Last Jedi. He's being widely reported as apologising for his comments, asserting the movie is GRRREAT and using a #humbledhamill hashtag with his tweet.

The Last Jedi
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